Mako Elite

12 years 5 months ago #2049 by skixcbob
Mako Elite was created by skixcbob
I demo'd the new Fenn Mako Elite at Ocean Paddle Sports demo day (4/20). I paddle a Mako XT and am an intermediate paddler. First I tried the Mako 6. It was really tippy. It has good secondary stability, but you have to go over pretty far before that kicks in, so I was wobbling about on the primary and could not paddle hard at all. The Elite is very stable. I would say more like the XT than the Mako 6. The secondary is at least the same as the 6 but kicks in as soon as you barely lean to either side. I could paddle hard as I wanted and didn't feel unstable at all. I would recommend it to anyone who is doing OK in the Mako XT.

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12 years 5 months ago #2050 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Re: Mako Elite
Bob posted this on the newsgroup too & I replied:

Something that I've found is that leg length is critical to the feeling of stability ? and I'd ask whether the two skis were set up identically?

I paddled my Mako6 adjusted too short the other day and felt most uncomfortable and unstable in it.

But my experience was not the same as yours with the Elite ? I found the Elite, while not radically unstable, definitely less stable than the Mako6.

But then ? I couldn't swear that the skis I paddled were set up identically either!

How rough was the water where you were testing the skis?

I'd be interested to hear what other people have found comparing the Elite & the M6. (I know that Keith Fenn told me he expected the Elite to be a little less stable ? but faster - than the M6. It is narrower; has slightly less rocker and the rudder is moved forward?)

Al Bowers then chimed in with some fascinating remarks (to me anyway):

A couple of comments from the peanut gallery.

1/ LWL and rocker has an effect on lateral stability. I know it sounds odd, but length in the water matters. Here is why: imagine the ski hull is just a box. As you make the box wider, you double the restoring moment for a given heel angle. you have more volume going into the water AND it has a longer moment arm (more "beam"). As you add length to the box, you don't increase the moment arm, BUT you do increase the volume of the box going into the water contributing to the restoring moment. So by taking some rocker out of the Mako6 for the Mako Elite, Fenn did increase the stability a bit, by artificially increasing the "length" of the hull in the water.

2/ Moving the rudder forward is always better for surfing (especially in shorter wavelengths). Its sort of odd, if you have a hull with more rocker, it should have the rudder further forward, and if you have a long straight keel line hull, it could have the rudder further aft to reduce the twitchiness of the steering. Is Fenn considering moving the rudder forward on the Mako6 as well? I would think this would be a smart move.

The forward rudder is one of the big reasons I don't sell my old Futura Blade. The rudder is WAY forward, and that boat handles short waves really well.

He also had this to say about measuring stability:

You know, if you wanted to measure "stability" there are two schools of thought. In one, you have to load the boat to its design WL. So It'd need like 120-200 lbs of ballast. But that isn't realistic. If you put 180 lbs of deadweight in a ski at the correct CG, it'd roll over like a dead log EVERYTIME. people are the perfect adaptive system to maintain stability (even when we think we're sitting still). If you want to prove it, close your eyes while sitting in your ski, hold onto the cockpit sides tightly, with no paddle, and sit RIGIDLY still. I think most of us will go swimming (some of the superhuman on here will be fine, even with their eyes closed; if examined closely, most of these superhuman folks will be found to have gills). I think to get a decent measure of stability, you might not want to lad it up fully, maybe like 1/2 the usual weight, in FIXED water ballast (I was thinking two 5 gallon water cubes, COMPLETELY full so they are pretty rigid) in the cockpit. Then clamp on a small T-bar to the rudder pedals (two C-clamps). At a fixed distance out to one side (say 1 foot?) hang a 5 lb weight. And measure the list (tip angle) of the boat. While this won't give a definitive answer to "tippiness" of the hull, I think with enough data it would be representative.


Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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12 years 5 months ago #2051 by onnopaddle
Replied by onnopaddle on topic Re: Mako Elite
Thanks again Al,

I could always 'see' this in my mind but could not put it to words so eloquently.

AL + ways good info to learn from.

pog ..

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