Carbon Red 7

10 years 9 months ago - 10 years 9 months ago #2809 by AndrewN
Carbon Red 7 was created by AndrewN
I saw Andre Botha's new full Carbon Red 7 Surf 70 yesterday...wow wow wow.

Unpainted carbon with a silver stripe coming in at just over 10 kg...

AND it has a new, bigger rudder so it might actually turn!

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10 years 9 months ago #2810 by AndrewN
Replied by AndrewN on topic Carbon Red 7
Oops...that should have read BIGGER, not the classic apartheid version...sorry.

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10 years 9 months ago #2811 by Seaugi
Replied by Seaugi on topic Carbon Red 7
Andrew,
I find myself wondering why someone could be offended by use of lower case script instead of capitals.
Would you be so kind as to explain why you felt the need to apologise here. I don't get the cultural aspects of it.
Confused in Canada
Sean

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10 years 9 months ago #2813 by Christian_Hoeier
Replied by Christian_Hoeier on topic Carbon Red 7
bigger was misspelled nigger in the first post

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10 years 8 months ago #2831 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Carbon Red 7
Hi Andrew

On the Topic of red7 rudder. Do you (or anyone out there - Pete if you read this) comment on a better rudder for the surf 70 pro. Will a bigger rudder necessarily lead to better turning ability (responsiveness) and maybe even better stability?

Thanks

SS

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #2836 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Carbon Red 7
On my Red7 I had a modified rudder which had simply had some material added to the trailing edge. That made some difference. My buddy Dale Lippstreu built a completely new 2-piece rudder and claims that it makes a huge difference.

Here are some pics of the new carbon Red7. They've made a couple of them that weigh just over 10kg.



Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
Attachments:

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10 years 8 months ago #2837 by AndrewN
Replied by AndrewN on topic Carbon Red 7
Wow...that colour scheme is sexy.

The rudder looks almost like the big square one on the Apex double - that sort of shape.

I don't think it will ever turn exceptionally well because of the flat rocker but a bit more control would be nice!

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10 years 8 months ago #2838 by AndrewN
Replied by AndrewN on topic Carbon Red 7
The new rudder is square like a Custom Kayaks Apex - obviously a bit smaller.

That ski is very very pretty...

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #2842 by cjborg
Replied by cjborg on topic Carbon Red 7
Apologies if my naivete produces an irrelevant entry here, but what seems to me a common issue applies to a number of boats and their stock rudders. A buddy of mine has problems with the rudder on his Mako 6, and another buddy disliked the rudder on his Think Evo. Daryl at Think has recently produced a new rudder for the Evo that seems to perform much better than the old standard version. The new version is about 30% longer, fin-shaped rather than trapezoidal and thinner. It seems to me to work much better downwave, and increases the responsiveness of the boat overall. I don't notice any increased drag, although I'm not sure I'd be able to tell by just paddling...might require a detailed analysis of flatwater speeds with different rudders.

But back on topic... that is the hottest looking boat I've seen in quite a while.

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10 years 8 months ago #2843 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Carbon Red 7
Judging by the responses to the rudder issue may i suggest that Rob/Alan do a review on different rudders on the market, where we can get etc. It makes common sense to delve deeper into this pit. When playing rugby or football you adjust/replace your studs for different conditions, so the same should apply for surfski's. We have seen tremendous leaps and bounds in ski R&D, radical shape differences, less/more rocker, venturi drains with bullet scuppers etc. yet rudders seem to be sucking the proverbial hind 'udder' (wont get bumped off the forum for the use of that word?).


S.S.

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10 years 8 months ago #2845 by heinvr
Replied by heinvr on topic Carbon Red 7
Hey there. Glad you guys like the ski... You should paddle it! Its awesome weighing in at 9.5kg.(complete)
On the rudder though:
I could ramble on about design this, performance that, and give some impressive list of designers that came up with it and how it increases the performance by X percent etc.

But what it boils down to is that it works. And very well at that. I have built many of them and they have been cut down to various sizes from small ones for some of the national marathon paddlers, Medium ones for the CSA Sprint K2 and then for various surfski owners from Epic, Fenn, Red7 etc. And all of the above have been ecstatic with how it has improved the handling of the craft from downwind manouverability on runs to trackability when coming in on big waves.

The history of the rudder is that it is quite an old shape from a mould that I got given by a friend, Brian Lion-Cachet, who is widely recognised as one of the best composite engineers and craftsman in SA.

The rudder is a very basic airofoil shape with the most important part being that it has a very symetrical leading and trailing edge.

Often overseen, but probably the most important part to how a rudder functions is the position of the point of rotation relative to the leading and trailing edge. There is a ratio that applies and that is one of the reasons why this rudder works really well.

Any case, hope I did not bore you. Thats my ten cents worth.

See you on the water,
Hein

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10 years 8 months ago #2846 by robin.mousley
Replied by robin.mousley on topic Carbon Red 7
How about a photo of the rudder?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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10 years 8 months ago #2866 by Bolt
Replied by Bolt on topic Carbon Red 7
Hi Hein


How about some pictures ?
Where can we get these rudders from ? r u selling them ?

Thx

Greg

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #2868 by jsowers
Replied by jsowers on topic Carbon Red 7
As long as we are off topic now on rudders: Wish that there was some standardization so rudders could be interchanged. I'm no longer an active wind surfer so do not know if this is still the case, but early on every manufacturer had a proprietary fin system, non interchangable. Eventually the Tuttle box became the de-facto standard for custom boards. I think this was overall good for the sport.

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #2869 by heinvr
Replied by heinvr on topic Carbon Red 7
Here is a photo taken from my ski. We make them at Carbonology-Sport together with some other nifty composite products.

Attachments:

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10 years 8 months ago #2873 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Carbon Red 7
Seriaas? Is that it, and it is efficient? (looks a bit like my first car i owned in the '80s - retro galore)

I have a 7 sport that is less than a year old (pre-fire stock). How does it compare with the normal factory-stock rudders they put on their ski's?

Does it offer increased turning ability? What does it do stability wise?

If yes to the first and nothing/improves stability to the second I'd like to have a chat with you guys (Jason Goedhals still involved?) and order one. Can you send me your website/email details. I'm not in SA.

Cheers
S.S.

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10 years 8 months ago #2874 by heinvr
Replied by heinvr on topic Carbon Red 7
Yes, thats it. Nothing special, but it works.
Its difficult for me to comment on stability as I am used to my Nelo K1 and the Red7 Pro70 is very stable as it is.
It has given me great freedom to manouvre on waves and in runs so I love it for that.
The Goedhals is still involved, we can fit the blade onto any shaft, but need to know what kind of attachment and angle of the shaft relative to the blade.
I dont know a 7 sport?
Will try get hold of an image and get back to you.
Cheers,
H

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10 years 8 months ago #2875 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Carbon Red 7
Sorry Hein, i meant a pro70 - standard edition. I'm definitely interested. Its a great ski but changing direction can prove cumbersome. Anything on Weed deflectors? There's a lot of fine weed (the ocean type) in the water that clogs up the rudder.

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10 years 8 months ago #2877 by kmac
Replied by kmac on topic Carbon Red 7
Hi Hein,

Also noticed that my Pro 70 is not the sharpest turner in the shed!

Where are you based and what do you rudders retail for?

Regards

Kirby

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10 years 8 months ago #2882 by heinvr
Replied by heinvr on topic Carbon Red 7
Email me direct with your order so I can send you a price list and get the nescessary measurements for your Ski.
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheers,
Hein

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