Is this blasphemy? Predictions for the coming years

2 months 2 weeks ago #33320 by SurfskiEstonia
Good people who use this forum, I ask of You to keep an open mind..

In the recent years we've seen the introduction of several short/stable/heavy/slow/fun/beginner skis. As Epic is maybe the most prominent producer with the easiest to follow model line names, I will use their example: V8, V7, V6 and now V5. Following this logic, there will appear boats like V4, ..., V1, V0 and at a certain point -V.

When could we see something like this: 

under the aggressive name of lets say Epic -V3? (again Epic used as an example of logical model names, could be any manufacturer)

The ad campaign could contain the following photo and slogan:

"Enables beginners to be even more aggressive in big conditions downwinds"
"Unprecedented stability with guaranteed remounts in any conditions"
"Weighing in at just under 150 pounds, the new design capacitates not only on-water training, but also pre- and post-water sessions, racking and unracking the vessel."
etc

Am I being unnecessarily optimistic?

Nelo Ocean Ski L, Jantex Gamma Mid, Jantex Gamma Rio Large Minus
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1 month 3 weeks ago #33410 by RonyMaier
hahaha, very funny prediction!! hahaha
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1 month 3 weeks ago #33411 by Jef58
Funny, I got into this thing not for downwind paddling but for fitness. Having many SOT plastic kayaks, there was nothing out there that was light and fast...until I discovered the surfski. Being in Florida, I wanted to have a sit on top and these fit the bill perfectly. I'm on a Genius CLK which is a great balance of speed and stability. The new wave of recreational 14' skis have their place and can be fun, they fill a huge void that is missing in general paddling. They are better all around boats for most people especially in the varying waters of Florida and probably most of the US. I never looked at them as true surfskis though. 
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1 month 3 weeks ago #33412 by SurfskiEstonia
Rony and Jef, thank You for responding! 

The fact that there were no replies for 3 weeks shows, that people wouldn't touch this topic with a barge-pole. Of course, I can't exclude the possibility that I'm in the extreme minority with my views on this topic.

Why I made this post was that I was kind of taken aback to learn that they had introduced the V5.

Here are the dimensions of the current Epic line-up in the stable range:
V5 - 4,3m - 60cm
V6 - 4,9m - 58cm
V7 - 5,2m - 54cm
V8 - 5,5m - 54cm

I remember first reading about the V8 with it being stable and suitable for beginners and looked at the introduction of the V7 favourably, as it does make sense to have something for less athletically able beginners. Then there was the V6, which already seemed a boat invented for purely commercial reasons. Now this V5, which seems like a good idea ONLY for surf zone surfing for advanced paddlers (short, durable, can be light if you wanna spend 3k and don't want to learn to roll, although can have a 8kg surf kayak for 2k).

I can't imagine why a beginner would want to buy a V5 or an equivalent from other manufacturers for the following reasons:
1. If a person's fitness level is that bad they won't manage a V6, then it's clear they won't do much paddling and the plastic SOT fishing kayaks for 500 usd will be more suited to their needs of paddling once a month.
2. Everyone more or less physically fit enough will out-grow the V5 in a month of active paddling and will probably aspire to paddle a V8.
3. The difference between V5 and V6 is 60 cm in length and 2 cm in width - of course the shape of the hull is more important for stability, but I can't really imagine how big could the difference effectively be. 

To sum it up, I think that this is just a marketing ploy to sell expensive heavy boats to unsuspecting consumers. I feel that it is my duty to voice my concerns on this topic.

Nelo Ocean Ski L, Jantex Gamma Mid, Jantex Gamma Rio Large Minus

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1 month 3 weeks ago #33414 by rhainan
A lot of people, me included, really like the V5.  It has been our most popular kayak since it was introduced.  A good majority of my V5 customers have not outgrown their boats and have no interest in moving up to the V8 (much to my disappointment). The V5 seems to do everything they want it to do and I haven't had any complaints.  There is no conspiracy to sell unwanted kayaks to defenseless consumers.

I'm not sure what you are trying to communicate.  Are you genuinely upset that surf ski manufacturers are producing wide and stable kayaks?  Why would this bother you?  In the time period since Epic released the V5 they have also updated the V12 and released the V11.  It's not like high performance skis are being neglected.

I cannot think of any other boat besides the V5/V7 that offers comparable weight, speed and handling under $2000.  And, not everyone is interested in surfing.  We have a lot more river miles than coastline in the USA.  Exploring many of our smaller rivers in anything but a rotomolded boat is often not a good idea.

Maybe you are trying to make a joke and it is not coming across well (or at least I am not getting it which is an entirely plausible scenario).  I actually keep asking Epic to introduce the V3 so I can replace the Hobies in my rental fleet.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer
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1 month 3 weeks ago #33415 by Jef58
I don't have an opinion either way. I can understand the traditional surfski crowd having anything below the 19' x 19" dimension for a beginners ski, but the box is open. I'm a cyclist first and a paddler second, so I can't dedicate the many hours needed for an elite type of boat. What I do notice, a lot of the newer boats have flatter type bottoms. I also have a Think EZE that I bought for fitness...thinking it was a SOT K1 trainer. The flatter bottom does not react very well in the choppy, sloppy type water I paddle in (intercostal and Gulf coast). The CLK has a rounder hull and is a much more pleasant craft to paddle (in my conditions). I would like to see more variety in the 520-550 range for general performance. A couple of players already jumped on this....
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