Contraversy with "The Doctor" results

5 years 7 months ago #22859 by LaPerouseBay
Good point MMG, elite paddlers should set an example. I think someone upthread said elite paddler doesn't necessarily mean elite person.

Based on the stories I hear Here in Hawaii, that's definitely true. We have a channel race between Maui and Molokai. Nothing near as challenging as Molokai to Oahu. Organizers let paddlers enter without escort boats to keep the cost down.

But some elite guys (and I mean extremely fast paddlers) don't even pay the entry fee and do the race anyway. They have numbers all over their boats and screw up the results.

Worse yet, they confuse the organizer as to who is finished and who may still be out in the ocean. The asshats that jump into the race know they are making it hard for the organizer. They don't give one shit about anyone. They drink the beer and eat the food, so the stragglers get nothing. Real douchebags. Sad thing is, they probably got that way because they were abused as kids or something.

But it's very dangerous for someone lost at sea when the organizer can't get the final tally of paddlers. They almost had a death last year for that very reason. Poor dude broke a leash and drifted for hours. They got him in the nick of time. 20 more minutes and he would have been dead. He was in bad shape.

I heard the organizers may be more careful this year, but time will tell. Some of those fast guys are just bums if you ask me. Drunken, selfish bums.

downwind dilettante

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5 years 7 months ago #22871 by jocuba
Baffled as to why is there no apparent focus, & pressure from stakeholders, on the race Director to explain his stance on this matter. Also, on decisions (or lack of) taken relating to final placings, no enforcement of penalties for blatant rule infringement etc. This is crucial so that everyone knows where they stand & the air can be properly cleared.

Paddlers will go with what the race director lets them get away with. Look at some of the top/prominent paddlers comments - those who did not infringe - & they're clearly not happy & want to know wtf's going on without wading in, as for everyone else.

Looks like everyone is fearful of stepping on toes & offending the organisers for some reason.
Was there a 'gentlemans' agreement in place perhaps? At least - very definitely turning a blind eye.

Is safety really a key priority or are the race organisers just paying lip-service to it?

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #22873 by AR_convert

jocuba wrote: Was there a 'gentlemans' agreement in place perhaps? At least - very definitely turning a blind eye.


This earlier quote "......have subsequently heard that the organises backed down because the party sponsors where going to take legal action. This can't be confirmed....." may have played some part on the silence from those in the know!

I heard second hand info that some of the top paddlers were DQ'd before I left prior to presentations, only to later see that no results had changed. I asked one of the paddlers closer to those in the know what happened and the answer was the protest was withdrawn. I wouldn't have thought it would matter whether there was a protest or not when it came to safety gear, if there was a blatant breaking of the rules then action should be taken.

Perhaps (and i'm taking a stab in the dark here) there were questions raised about others in the top 10 not having other bits of safety equipment such as flares and leg ropes. If they DQ'd all of those without proper PFD's, leg ropes and flares they may have been made to look silly????

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #22876 by fredrik
I understand that is could be an issue for the organizers if the sponsors threatened to take legal actions. Good thing nothing bad happened because I am sure the legal actions after a mishap would have been a lot worse, given the personal willful misconduct of the organizing individuals not following up the safety gear. In such a context any legal action from the sponsor would be small change compared to the legal exposure after a potential incident/accident.

Hopefully this has become a turning point for all involved so that nice and quite comfortable PDFs are used as intended.

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5 years 7 months ago #22877 by gingerninja
Replied by gingerninja on topic Contraversy with "The Doctor" results
After being over at the doctor,seeing first hand what took place there is many sides to the story.
Firstly i agree that paddlers need to set the example and our pfd's need to be legit.
Some of the top paddlers(and mid-packers) have always wore these incorrect pfd and at races in briefing been told that they will be DQ. But it never happens. who set the tone ???? race director or paddler. id say both.
Would be interesting to see if the offenders finished behind the protesters( out of the prize money) if we would be at this situation.
It shouldn't take a situation like the placings at a race and prizemoney to bring our safety negligence to be corrected.
These guys race each other all the time and know what each other wears.Maybe they should have been spoken too before the race.
Be pro active with our safety not reactive.
To me thats the bad bit. Safety should be at the top and not only if a top 10 does the wrong thing that it rears this ugly situation.
Safety is priority not what place you get or prizemoney
from what i was told,
I believe A protest was made due to illegal pfd and then basically what went further was other top 10 paddlers not fully adhering to the rules also - flare and leg leash. So i was informed what happened is , if these guys are DQ'd a protest would be made also regarding leg leashes etc. Then it got messy.
The race director would have been in a very S$%t position. (having team paddlers in top 10 also) would be very hard for him. Especially the effort, and a great effort i must say, at putting on such a great race.

From my point of view this needed to happen at some stage otherwise it would keep happening.
Look what is happening for the 20 beaches, hats off to the organizers for being proactive and if this was done at the doctor i most likely wouldnt be writing on this thread.

Maybe we shouldn't be pointing fingers at individuals but rather realize not only the paddler is at fault and is culmination of various things- paddlers , organisers , what paddlers have been let get way with. etc

Maybe us lesser lights tap them on the shoulder and say mate fix that safety issue.

Maybe from a bad situation a positive has come out of this.................. well im hoping so!

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #22878 by AR_convert

gingerninja wrote: I believe A protest was made due to illegal pfd and then basically what went further was other top 10 paddlers not fully adhering to the rules also - flare and leg leash. So i was informed what happened is , if these guys are DQ'd a protest would be made also regarding leg leashes etc. Then it got messy.
The race director would have been in a very S$%t position.


Ahhh, so my theory was right, cheers for confirming that, it explains a lot.

I was sent some race pics of one of the offending paddlers with a wafer thin PFD on, I guess with intention of posting them here, but as has been said, it serves no purpose to point fingers, especially when as has been pointed out, while that paddler was a bit more obvious to the eye, it would let those who didn't have leg leashes and flares avoid scrutiny as well.

gingerninja wrote:
From my point of view this needed to happen at some stage otherwise it would keep happening.

Maybe from a bad situation a positive has come out of this.................. well im hoping so!


Yep, hopefully giving this issue a good airing will change some attitudes BEFORE it leads to catastrophe.

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)
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5 years 7 months ago #22881 by greggy.d
I don't think it's the paddlers fault at all (doesn't mean I think it the right thing to do). If you get away with it, good on you! Any elite paddler is and has always looked to get any advantage they can after their opposition. It is obviously well know that people do it! If people would get pulled up for it, the first time and every time after and DQ people would stop.

Same goes with starts, leg leashes, relay changes, drugs...

Organisers/events that make a rule should enforce it or why bother?

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5 years 7 months ago #22912 by Rich
To 'greggy.d' - that is the worst attitude I have heard. "If you get away with it - good on you".

I don't know you obviously, but if that is your attitude to this issue and perhaps other situations in life, take a look at yourself and what sort of a character you are. Seriously mate, that shows a total lack of integrity and is the same selfish attitude demonstrated by every dishonest, criminal piece of scum that inhabits our world. I'm not saying that is you - but the attitude is a perfect match.

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5 years 7 months ago #22913 by greggy.d
Not my attitude at all. Its a fact that if there is an opportunity to cheat in elite sports where there is dollars or other value in cheating; people have and will continue to.
I'm far from elite so no problem for me and hate cheaters. But my point is if you are caught not playing within the rules, no tolerance, no win, no dallar.

They will stop if it is enforced!

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #22914 by greggy.d

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #22920 by Rich
:) Good to hear mate. Seriously, I think reinforcing and upholding moral and ethical standards is the responsibility of the community. Leaving it to the law makers and law enforcers will never achieve the same effect as if we hold to account those bastards who demonstrate unethical and dishonest behaviour. See a snake, kill a snake.
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5 years 7 months ago #22931 by Bermy
Replied by Bermy on topic Contraversy with "The Doctor" results
Most interesting thread since RAB left.

Would like to know who the sponsor was that put pressure on the organiser/others to withdraw the protest. Poor form.

If I am speeding and get caught I cannot raise a defense that others drove without a safety belt but were not caught and accordingly I should not be held accountable for not following the rules.

If its a rule (or a law even - as it is in WA) it must be followed. If you don't want to adhere to the rules...don't participate.

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5 years 7 months ago #22932 by greggy.d
I do tend to feel sorry for the competitors caught up in this as it is not new for paddlers to take foam out of their PFD and something that has been let go for a while and people doing it have still been winning and getting rewarded for it, so more people would try the same. It's just that someone in this race who happened to be doing the right thing put in a challenge (as they have a right and should). Well done to the guys that did, probably took a fair bit of guts to do so, and I'm sure the sport will be better for it.

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5 years 7 months ago #22948 by Watto
Lol Bermy, good one.

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