composite seat pad

I've been paddling on 9/16" of foam in my bucket for about 3 weeks and love it. (Except the sticky part, which I got used to quickly).

A friend of mine here on Maui works with composites. He's also into ski's and has been considering a solid insert for his boat. He has a cutoff section of my bucket (old V-10).

Anyhow, I wanted slip and slide action so I had him make me one. I've paddled it once - yesterday in small surf - and it was super fun. Very happy with the results. I'll get used to the new quirks of bracing in a jiffy. The leverage on the the blade is a much better fit for my body. Feels great!

I took very accurate measurements of the the total thickness of the foam and solid inserts. Foam was at 9/16", new deep spot was precisely over the deep spot in the V-10. Seems logical, because the foam was equal thickness and matched the existing contour of the bucket. I asked Mike to shift the deep spot (entire bucket) forward a bit. Deep spot is 5/8 forward, total raise is 13/16". The ridge you see in front is not an issue with comfort. I can feel it, but it does not impede my legs at all. Super happy to be sliding around.

I'm in this sport for the exercise and fun. Moving my legs as much as possible does wonders for my core. Extra power in the stroke is a side benefit. I may take some gas in big downwind conditions, but I'll deal with it and get better. Maybe I'll put a leash on it in the event it needs to be unfastened and carried to shore!

It's very light. Mike is super talented. Hollow construction, two stringers under my sit bones. He's glad he made it. I was lucky he could integrate construction with his other projects. Stuff like this is not easy to fabricate! Here's a few pics. Mold was taken in bucket, that provided the bottom half which also served as the shape for the top section. It was split down the middle to get the parts together. The sides are the minimum amount needed to get them together. Fits great. I forgot the insert was in there in less than an hour.

Wow L, that looks amazing, what does it weigh?

I used to work with custom wheelchairs, we would take a bean bag with very fine beads in it, have the client sit in the bag, evacuate the air from the bag which made the bag become rock solid. Effectively ending up with the perfectly shaped seat for their anatomy. The impression was then laser scanned and a piece of foam cnc routed to recreate the shape, it was possible to give it a little more room where needed by either fitting pads to the client or doing some mods after the foam was routed. For a person sitting in a wheelchair it's all about comfortable support with no pressure points that could lead to sores. This was more than 10 years ago when this technology was really whizz bang, far easier and cheaper now. We used to do the scanning and send the files to Germany to have the seat base made.

It's occurred to me before that this could be a smart way to make custom surfski seat inserts, the difference of course between a wheelchair and a surfski is that you need to be able to rotate in the ski, imagine if the perfect fit foam could rotate within the existing seat, that would really be something.

Is it just me...something slightly disturbing about the fourth photo down, feel like you should put some shorts on before you show your bottom on the internet

Cool looking job, nice one.

A number of years ago I had a guy contact me looking for just the seat plate from a K1 seat to fit to his ski. I believe the story went that he had just got back from Molokai where he had seen Clint Robinson with that set up in his ski, and was looking for a bit more height, but wanted to maintain nice rotation. To be honest, I've never seen photos of Clint's set up from that year, or the solution the guy fixed to his ski, so I'm not too sure how well it worked out.

JonathanC wrote: Wow L, that looks amazing, what does it weigh?

Hi JC, I'm not sure what it weighs. I told Mike not to worry about the weight. But he can't make junk, so it's light. He said he learned some things and that his next one will be lighter.

Kathy was wondering how you guys make molds of body parts. She will like the story of the small beads and vacuum. I had some semi-custom shoes made a decade ago that were taken from a mold of my feet. They used a special foam that crushed just so. I still have those cycling shoes and use them all the time. Semi custom shoes are spendy, but holy crap do they make a difference. I would expect no less from a custom molded ski seat.

Stew, I was told that Zsolt Szadovski has a molded insert he uses in a V-12. I don't know the specifics, but it had something to do with K1.

I'll send him a picture of the insert and ask him about his. He's a super cool guy, our main rep in Hawaii, over on Oahu.

I stepped on the gas a bit on today's paddle. I really like sliding around in that bucket. It's like having a new boat. My core and legs are going to benefit big time.

That's exactly the type of insert I was planning to eventually fabricate too. My New Epic V10 is fairly comfortable for me, while my Think Eze is not - my thought was to shape a bottom (not full bucket) insert after the shape of my V10 seat that would lift me just so off the bottom of the Eze seat, which is just too deep and not angled forward enough...

I suppose, because I am using two different skis, I need to take two molds: one from the Eze (for the bottom of the insert) and one from the V10 (for the too). Sandwich them together somehow (that's the part I'm not yet sure how to do smartly) and use thin double-sided tape or some low-strength adhesive to semi-permanently attach it to the Eze.

Any ideas how to mate the two parts? Stringers could work, but would take forever to sand them down by trial and error so the two shapes fit well. I could of course just squirt inside between the two halves some adhesive to fill the void - easy but heavy. Perhaps if I use some high-volume low-weight substance mixed in with the adhesive I can get a porous core somehow. Construction foam spray could work too, I suppose...

Kocho, I can't help much with joining the two parts together. But I can give a bit more history on the photos and some conversations Mike and I had at the beginning of the project. Basic stuff for composite guys, but I'll add what I know for those of us that are less experienced.

My original dream was to mate the bucket of a V-14 into my V-10. I sat in the 14 and paddled around in light conditions for about 10 minutes and it was absolute heaven. The hull is beyond my ken, but the ergonomics of the bucket are hand in glove for my backside.

So our original plan was to mold both and join them up, but the logistics of borrowing a 14 wasn't in the cards. Mike had the 10 seat molded, so I suggested using the 10 for both halves. His response - "ok, then it will be easy." (Ha ha!)

1st pic is the bare shell, 2nd is the wax and primer sprayed on. 3rd looks like the glass applied to the gray primer. The primer sticks to the epoxy but not the wax. The same primer layer is in pic 5 on the finished part.

4th, that looks like the top half of the mold, (the one I sit on) being formed on the first mold. The top half of the mold was then cut in half, lengthwise. I think he took just enough out of the kerf to allow the two to be rejoined and squished into the first mold. Hence the very thin sides.

Pics 5,6,7 are taken by me. The final fit is perfect. How he managed to mate those flimsy parts together is a mystery to me. He did say that there is support under the sit bone area but I've no clue how that gets installed or fitted. I'm a woodworker by trade and enjoy a challenge, but know enough to stay away from this one!

Hey Kocho, I would look around where you live and find a place with a laser scanner and small cnc router. Usually those guys will be able to relatively inexpensively scan and route, it's their bread and butter. You don't need incredible accuracy for this application and the ideal colour for scanning is white!

So they scan the seats of both boats and once they have the scans import them into the software and create a shape with the appropriate seat shape on the bottom and the top. Of course then they could vary the space between them, put in some forward or back tilt, move one forward as LPB did etc etc

Then it's a matter of cnc routing, they typically use the high density blue PU foam, once that is routed, a light sand and have it finished in glass or carbon, something a local surfboard maker or quality repairer can do, ideally vacuum bagged to keep it light and perfectly retain the shape but not essential if whoever does it knows what they are doing. LPB was lucky enough to have someone like Mike as a buddy, he mixes the qualities of a professional composite worker and passionate surf ski paddler! Without that I would just let technology step in.

The other thing is that once you have all the data if you decide you want a pad that's 1/2" higher just get the program changed and route out another blank, that's the quick and relatively cheap part, in fact if it was made in the standard foam these guys usually use you could actually just stick it in a plastic bag and go for a paddle to make sure it's ok before glassing it. At that point, if you feel a tiny bit of pressure or whatever you can sand the material out or even bond on an extra sliver, it's beautiful stuff to work by hand, sands to perfectly smooth finish very quickly.

Interesting option there would be to make two make inserts, a thin one for rough water / downwinding and a thick one for flat water paddling! Or one for your partner/ buddy to use if you share a boat.

You will then have a light weight perfect solution, not saying it will cost $50. But compared to selling a boat that doesn't fit it would be cheap.

I think this is a great idea and would solve all manner of problems that I have sitting in seats that have many inches either side of my hips. I have no control of the boat.

(except in the Spark, I really liked the Spark! now to save for one...)

Now to find someone in Cape Town who is willing to mould a Spark cockpit onto a Focus for me.

Great info JC, the scannning tech seems like the best route for a project like this.

I've been paddling the insert almost a week now, in some very windy conditions on the south shore. One full maliko in medium wind, some upwind, downwind stuff on the north shore.

I'm amazed at the new performance of the V-10. It is completely transformed. I think the ability to slide freely is the key to my happiness.

Now the leg drive is set free to give a boost in power. That is very useful to get the boat where it should be. Common knowledge - so fun to feel it on the water. More gliding, less paddling. Far less anxiety about making the glide.

Minor loss of stability. Sides are not as tall, so I adjusted my roll to keep the bucket dry when steering around in bumps.

I'm going full throttle on my runs. Arms are feeling less beat up. Lower back was a bit sore for a day or two, but that's gone. All good signs.

Last year Hein from Carbonology did exactly that for me, sent me a Flash bucket. I use it for marathon racing to get the ski seat up more K1 like. I can sit 5cm higher no problem in races. I also use it in my plastic ski for long downriver races which have notoriously poor bucket seats.

The idea has taken off for plastic skis and a local fibreglass repairer does lots of them in the popular plastic skis used in multisport and white water marathon races.

AR - how do you keep it in place? And how did he mould the bottom part so it fitted into your boat?

Thanks for the heads up - I will have to get in touch with Hein.

Ric wrote: AR - how do you keep it in place? And how did he mould the bottom part so it fitted into your boat?

Thanks for the heads up - I will have to get in touch with Hein.

Hein just used the bucket mould to make the seat area, as high as the rails and about mid thigh long.

I cut it down so it doesn't protude above the bucket when I have it up 5cm. I used closed cell foam to elevate it and I use cloth tape to hold it in place and seal the edges from water. It doesn't look pretty but works really well. I didn't want it as a permanent fixture (for downwinds) and the ability to use it in my plastic ski.