What's the smallest wave you can surf downwind?

2 years 7 months ago #30529 by HangTen
Davg,
Reread your posts. You say what I really mean is period, not wavelength. No, what I really meant was wavelength. Then you say, what I really mean is amplitude. No, what I really meant was wavelength.

There is really no need to take it so personally. If someone is wrong, you can explain why they are with relevant facts, but namecalling and then not providing the factual information that proves your point really doesn't accomplish anything.

In ocean wave propagation the fetch is the distance over which the wind force was applied. As this fetch distance increases all other things constant, the greater the energy transfer from the wind to the waves. Up until a point, at which the waves are "fully developed" what I referred to as the maximal fetch, at which point increasing the fetch will only produce whitecaps. Hence maximum fetch for any given wind speed.

At the end of the day, if you don't have the formula, no worries. Like I said, it was just a tangential curiosity since as you correctly described because of the compounded nature of waves it's just a model of ideal wave behavior.

If anyone else has comments on the main topic of what kind of wave you ride vs just power through paddling straight and the standard definition of what a runner is, it is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 7 months ago #30549 by PSwitzer
Hang10, in response to Question #1: The smallest wave you want to ride vs. power through depends on how fast you are trying to go. The problem with sitting and riding small wind driven chop is that it goes slow. So if you're racing, you don't want to sit and ride small chops going 6 kt. In that case you would angle across, power over etc. Even in that situation though, you will have plenty of moments where it makes more sense to sit for a second and wait for a gap to open up in front of you before powering through. It's not black and white. Even when you are jumping across and over little bumps you try to keep the boat pointed down as much as possible.

Question #2: A Runner is in the eye of the beholder. No standard.

In regards to your well done diagrams, even in a well developed sea with an infinite number of wave sizes and speeds all criss crossing and pulling open holes in front of you, you almost never point the boat directly in line with the direction of the swell. There are a couple reasons for this: If you are overtaken by a wave whilst pointing in the same direction as said wave's travel, it swallows up your stern and floods the cockpit etc and your speed goes to zero. So you paddle at an angle to the wave until the trough starts to open up and make room for the bow, then you let the bow point down for takeoff, and as soon as you match the speed of the wave, angle off again so you stay high on the wave and avoid stuffing the bow/ spinning out. While high and angled, you scan around and plan and execute your next move, but the worst thing in the world is to just plunge directly down the face.

Occasionally in big conditions you link onto a wave going so fast that it makes sense to head straight down for a while because the trough is pulling away from you so fast. But even on those big ones you will eventually angle off to avoid getting eaten up from behind as you lose speed.

Here on Oahu our bread and butter Hawaii Kai run starts with the wind blowing offshore, and it takes about a mile (7 or 8 minutes) before you really have an opportunity to start sitting and surfing the chops at a reasonable race speed - Patrick
The following user(s) said Thank You: HangTen

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #30598 by davgdavg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago #30599 by HangTen
Davg,
If you want to provide a formula for ocean wave theory go ahead. But if every time you're corrected you take it personally and throw a hissy fit, you should stop posting incorrect information or get a thicker skin. I for one certainly won't be upset if my information is proven to be faulty.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #30600 by davgdavg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago #30601 by HangTen
Davg,
None of those is a formula for calculating waves with reduced fetch. Actually relevant facts and less deflection would be appreciated.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago #30602 by davgdavg
I've only just begun to scratch the surface by trying (to absolutely no avail) to explain the factors involved in "calculating waves" (whatever that means: height? period? what?)

I'm not even an expert, but things like decay, shoaling, water depth where the waves formed, etc. all play factors in determining the characteristics of waves. Even then, there are anomalies.

My suggestion to you would be like I said, learn to read the NOAA buoys and associate those readings with real-world observations in your local area until you have a good idea of the correlation between the readings and what your local conditions may/will be.

Honestly, if you do only paddle on a 12 mile long lake as it appears from what I have gleaned from this thread, then I further don't understand trying to nitpick ocean waves, nor why you seem to be so intent on offering your "corrections."

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #30603 by davgdavg

HangTen wrote: Davg,
If you want to provide a formula for ocean wave theory go ahead. But if every time you're corrected you take it personally and throw a hissy fit, you should stop posting incorrect information or get a thicker skin. I for one certainly won't be upset if my information is proven to be faulty.


Therein lies the key to this whole thing. You aren't correcting me. Certainly you are arrogantly trying to patronize me, is that what you mean? Ignorance to you being ignorant of your own ignorance doesn't mean you are correct. It just means you are trying unsuccessfully to accomplish something, and demonstrating somewhat undesirable character traits in the process.

By the way, where are these "hissy fits?"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2 years 6 months ago #30604 by HangTen
Davg,
Please see my previous post.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics

tve's Avatar

What's the best way to fix this...? (13 Posts)

1 hour 16 minutes ago

Suggestions for ski upgrade (4 Posts)

1 day 9 hours ago
zachhandler's Avatar

Knysna MAC MKII (3 Posts)

2 days 4 hours ago
Protected by R Antispam