Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?

2 weeks 6 days ago - 2 weeks 5 days ago #33634 by MCImes
Im close to pulling the trigger on a new boat but a  Huki S1-R (newest version) caught my eye.

To anyone who has paddled both, have any thoughts?

It would be a Vac Glass Swordfish at 34lb or a carbon S1r at 27lbs. I know both boats surf well, does one have the edge in some conditions or another?

Edit - Also looking to sit in a Huki to try and decide if my butt fits the Medium bucket. If you have a Post 2012 Huki with a Medium or Large bucket, I'd love to meet up for a paddle and sit in your boat for a minute. 

Thanks

Current Boats: Swordfish S
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"

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2 weeks 4 days ago #33640 by JC
Replied by JC on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
I've paddled both boats, extensively.  The Swordfish surfs well, and is noticeably faster on flat water than the S1-R.  (Neither ski is a flat-water racer, though.)  I also thought the Swordfish was more comfortable to sit in.  Both brands are well-made skis, and both are super-stable.  Huki skis have the edge in ease of changing footplate settings and rudders, but once you've set up either boat the way you want it, those features fade in importance.  I also think Fenn skis are generally more comfortable and ergonomic than Huki skis.  Have to say, though, paddling a ski with a cool looking design (Huki) is a bit more appealing than paddling a plain white ski (Fenn).  Can always brighten up a Fenn with stickers, though.   - Mike

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2 weeks 15 hours ago - 2 weeks 8 hours ago #33681 by Fath2o
Replied by Fath2o on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
Hey Marcus, I have briefly paddled both S1-R's and the old Swordfish. The Swordy is a fantastic ski both up and downwind, particularly with a proper rudder. But, in my experience and opinion Fenn's are poorly made ski's with very little quality control. You guy's in the southern hemisphere seem to have a different opinion. Is it possible that the blems are sent to the US? I have bought two new Fenn skis and can elaborate in great detail if so inclined.
Huki's on the other hand are extremely well made with strict quality control by the owner Jude Turczynski. He commonly re-sells blem/defective skis custom made for a customer at a loss on his web site. In fact there is currently a new blemished S1-Xl  (a fantastic ski similar to a Swordfish) for sale due to graphic streaks and smudged paint at a almost $2000.00 discount, NICE!
So my experience with S1-R gen II is that is it probably has the best downwind performance of any ski that I have paddled. Although it nose dives readily, not a deal breaker. The problem I had (sorry Jude) is that on a very rough windy upwind paddle it was actually difficult to make forward progress. It slaps a lot. They were unusually crappy conditions though with large waves (3+ meters, 20 knts.). Funny years ago when I paddled the old S1-X special that I was considering buying, Jude, being the ethical and honest guy he is warned me that the ski tends to slap upwind. Huki's have a bit of a tendency for this.
I would be happy to own either or both of these skis though!
Good luck!
P.S.  Gen II S1-R, is overall, much improved over gen I

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2 weeks 9 hours ago #33691 by Steve Hansen
Just to clarify, the issues that Owen talks about were addressed in the Gen. 2 version of the S1-R. With a lower profile prow it doesn't weathercock like the original and the hull shape slices rather than slams going upwind. It also has a narrower catch, although not enough for my taste. The cockpit was moved forward also. Dimension wise the "R" and the Swordfish are similar. I would hazard a guess that the "R" has better initial stability and the Swordfish maybe has better secondary stability and a slight speed advantage.. Do you like a loose feeling ski or prefer initial stability ? Couldn't go wrong with either choice but I'd go with Huki because it's lighter, better build quality and Jude will take care of you if you ever have problems.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Fath2o

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6 days 14 hours ago #33748 by mickeyA
Replied by mickeyA on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
Can I add V10 3g and SEI 2g (latest models)?  I currently have a red tip V10Sport 2g and a black tip V12 g1 (previous model).  The V12 is great on flat water, no stability issues.  It is a little twitchy in the chop, though, and I am less relaxed as a result (I really do not enjoy falling in).  The V10Sport is rock solid, so much so that it seems too stable, where I feel I may be giving up speed for too much stability.  I paddle mainly flat water and choppy water in these 2 boats.  I have an XT or the V10Sport for the rare downwinder. 
In Epic's lineup, does the v10 3g fit closer, stability-wise, to the V10Sport g2 or the V12 g1?
I am considering trading in both of my Epic's for something in between.  But it has to be stable in the chop so I can enjoy my 2+ hour paddles in bays and oceans and Mississippi River--not concerned w/ downwind for this boat.  I am considering Fenn SF S, V10 g3 (should I be considering g2?), and Stellar SEI g2 (I assume that is current model).  I love Huki, but none in my area (SE USA).
I am 6', 210 lbs/95 kg, been paddling ~10yrs (nothing regular or seriously).  I rented V8Pro and Bluefin in last 2 Gorge races (my only real downwind experiences), borrowed a SF S and did better in it that the other 2 (no fall offs in any of them).  I find clean downwind conditions such as Gorge to not require as much stability from the boat as choppy, washing machine conditions do.  It is the choppy, washing machine, confused conditions I want this boat for.  Which of V10, SF S, and SEI are best, and are they closer to V10Sport or V12 in stability?
Thanks.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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6 days 9 hours ago #33750 by Cerca Trova
Having owned a V10 sport,  G1 & G2 SEI, and have paddled a Swordie, and currently paddling a G3 V10 I can say all 3 are awesome intermediate skis with excellent speed and stability. In IMO though the G3 V10 is the overall winner. I would put the stability in the middle of the V10S and V12 which is the purpose. 

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5 days 12 hours ago #33776 by mickeyA
Replied by mickeyA on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
Thanks Cerca Trova.  So the V10 g3 is squarely between the V10Sport g2 and v12 g1 from a balance standpoint in chop.  Makes sense.  Which 3 skis are you calling "intermediate"?  V12 is elite, so what would V10 be classified as?  then what would V10Sport be classified as?  They cannot both be called "intermediate" can they?  I am assuming V10, SEI, and SF S are all in same category, whatever they may be called, while V10Sport is a step below.
So you like the V10 g3 the best.  What makes it the winner vs SEI g2 and SF S?  better balance, speed, comfort, all of the above?
This is very valuable information to me and I appreciate it.  I am in a region where trying different skis is non-existent.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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5 days 9 hours ago - 5 days 19 minutes ago #33778 by MCImes
Replied by MCImes on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
Regardless of the beam, the conditions are 50% of the Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced/Elite equation, nay?

V10, SF, SEI are all similar in that;
-In flat water, they can be paddled 'relatively effectively' by a good beginner
-In small-medium waves it takes a 'solid Intermediate' paddler to put the power down
-In big but not sloppy conditions you're probably pushing 'High intermediate' / 'Low Advanced' status
-In big and or really sloppy conditions, you're probably pushing 'High Advanced' / Elite to fully power the boat at all times  

My guess is on the flats it will feel fine, in a big downwinder it may be a handful. I'm about to pick up the SF-S this weekend, and know I won't be out in the 2-3m swell like we had yesterday for quite a while. On the XT it was a handful in big sloppy conditions, but I never went in. I bet I take 2 steps backwards in the SF thru this summer

In my book, 45cm is a Low Intermediate on flat water to High Advanced in sloppy water generally, and could be up to an Elite level boat if the conditions are really big. Likewise, (to me)
V10S is High Beginner to Low Advanced 
V12 is Low Advanced to Elite 

Edit - you got me thinking, really a boats stability looks like the BMI weight scale. Check out the attached image. This is my entirely non-scientific ranking of beam-to-conditions-to-skill ratio. What do you think?


Current Boats: Swordfish S
Past Boats: Epic V10 g0, Stellar SR g1, Fenn XT g1
"When you've done something right, they wont know you've done anything at all"
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4 days 9 hours ago #33780 by mickeyA
Replied by mickeyA on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
Wow.  I like that chart.  I’ve never seen it looked at that way. It would nice to get opinions on it, suggestions to alterations, tweaks, etc.  One thing I noticed is the boat itself should not be classified according to its flat water rating, as your colors suggest.  As it reads now, V14 is an overall low advanced ski as it is colored blue. I do not think you intend that to be the case as there would no such thing as an overall elite ski.  I think your “>150” column best categorizes the overall classification of the ski. V14 is elite; v11 /12 high advanced; v10 low advanced, sport high intermediate, etc.  Has anyone mentioned what conditions should we use to classify skis, where balance is not an issue and you are able to put full power into strokes?  I have no issues on flat water in v12, even v14, but I am by no means an elite paddler. More like low advanced or high intermediate based on your chart. Makes sense.  I am trying to decide between v10 and v10Sport for stability in confused, washing machine,  chop, which makes me a 5 or 6 skill level.  Great idea.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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4 days 3 hours ago - 4 days 3 hours ago #33782 by Atlas
Replied by Atlas on topic Huki S1-R vs Swordfish S?
That is a great chart MCImes. It's a good starting point for the extraordinarily complicated process of classifying skis.
One of the appealing things about ocean ski paddling is that there are no hard and fast rules. Stability is a function of so many different factors and every paddler will have a slightly different perspective depending on (among other things) what they are hoping the ski will do for them.
Overall beam is suggestive in relation to the stability of a boat but the underwater shape also has a huge influence. For example the Think Zen and the Nelo 520 have identical beams and they are both on the short side of average. However they are vastly different skis and in my opinion they are in completely different categories. This is because the Zen's hull is very flat through the mid section whereas the Nelo is quite rounded. As a result of their hull shapes; the Zen has very high primary stability and very low secondary stability. The 520 has surprisingly low primary stability but substantial and predictable secondary stability. Not good or bad; just different.

Current skis:
Epic V10L, Think Zen, Fenn Bluefin, Fenn XT double

Previous skis
Fenn Swordfish, Fenn Swordfish S, Fenn XT, Spirit PRS

Most with DK rudders.

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