Looking for a new GPS

3 weeks 3 days ago - 3 weeks 3 days ago #32694 by Nige
I currently have a Garmin 310 XT which I attach to my foot strap so I can see my real time speed, distance and time (3 fields, but with speed as the main field)

I am looking to replace it, but it seems all the new GPS units have got smaller and are designed to be worn on the wrist, which is not what I want. If anything, I would like a bigger display than the 310XT (old man's eyes!), and it must be able to be fitted to my ski (foot strap or similar.)

Any suggestions?
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3 weeks 3 days ago #32695 by robin.mousley
After my 310XT gave up the ghost, I upgraded to the 910XT.

It has roughly the same screen size and similar features to the 310XT.

It was soon replaced by the 920XT, but I see that that has disappeared from the line up too.

And now there's a plethora of options for runners, cyclists, swimmers, etc... wow!

I have no idea what to recommend now. Anyone else?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others!

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3 weeks 3 days ago #32696 by SurfskiEstonia
I asked a similar question last year: www.surfski.info/forum/17-equipment/1885...i.html?limitstart=20 and there were some very interesting answers.

I currently use a Garmin Epix watch and I'm happy with it's impressive durability and battery life. But speed accuracy is very poor. Now that I have not worn a GPS watch off water since posting that topic, I would rather look at these two suggestions that were made to that question:

1. SamTaylor suggested the SpeedCoach OC2. nksports.com/speedcoach-oc-2 I think I would go with this one next time. It really seems like a very specialised product for this purpose.



2. Another interesting idea was to use a cycling computer like Garmin Edge, but the better ones being more or less in the same price bracket as the OC2 and having the question of water-tightness, I think the OC2 is still a better idea.

If you want a wrist-worn watch and are after accuracy, maybe this website can help you: fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy . The DC Rainmaker's website is also very interesting, but it needs a lot of digging to understand what's best for you.

Nelo Ocean Ski L, Jantex Gamma Mid, Jantex Gamma Rio Large Minus
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3 weeks 3 days ago - 3 weeks 3 days ago #32698 by nell
I seconded the NK Speedcoach in that last thread linked to above. Three more comments: the software update for my model now allows you to change the measurement in the upper left box, so now all four boxes are changeable. Secondly, this gps automatically turns on the backlight and leaves it on when you use it between sunset and sunrise which is a nice feature if your workouts occasionally extend into dusk or start before sunrise. Third - on the NK website, you can select a mounting base for the gps. I use the flat plate and put a few dabs of silicone glue on the back and glue it to the near vertical area at the front of the footwell. The plate is $5 so you can buy one for all your skis.
EBorgnes
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3 weeks 2 days ago #32700 by SurfskiEstonia
Nell, how would You describe the GPS accuracy? Does it allow to monitor precise speed changes for technique work? As in changing the stroke slightly and seeing a smooth change in speed..

Nelo Ocean Ski L, Jantex Gamma Mid, Jantex Gamma Rio Large Minus

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3 weeks 2 days ago #32702 by nell
While I can't tell you any technical facts about the NK gps, I can say that it updates much more quickly and more often than my old gps which is the garmin 310 XT, so yes, I think it works well for evaluating technique. My guess is that the speed updates about every other stroke, so about 1x each second, and the indicated speed doesn't bounce around at all. The NK also registers distance in 0.000 for the first mile/km that you do, then it converts over to 0.00 afterwards, so you can precisely measure your interval course if you'd like.

It's expensive and there's no map feature. I won mine in a race otherwise I probably would have balked at paying that much for a gps. But, if I lost the one I have, I'd think awfully hard about buying another to replace it.

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2 weeks 5 days ago #32740 by Nige
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
The NK Speedcoach looks very good, but as Nell says, it is very expensive and it is a bit of an overkill for my needs. The water resistance of the cycling GPS is a concern.
I guess I'll have to stick with my 310XT until I find what I am looking for.

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2 weeks 5 days ago #32741 by uk gearmuncher

SurfskiEstonia wrote: Nell, how would You describe the GPS accuracy? Does it allow to monitor precise speed changes for technique work? As in changing the stroke slightly and seeing a smooth change in speed..


Whilst I can't state the GPS positional accuracy, I used the NK SUP GPS for a paper I had published in a scientific journal this year (using a SUP, not a kayak) and precision of its speed was very good 9i did not check accuracy, only the precision). I got a coeffcient of variation (Standard deviation/mean x100) of less than 3% and that's pretty much as good as a sports science lab experiment. I'd take it as red that its very good for most peoples needs.

(By the way, a quick word of warning of those people using wrist mounted GPS's - due to the paddlers moving arm being both faster and then slower than the boat, these can (with some types) create data inaccuracy when it comes to determining both speed and average speed).
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2 weeks 5 days ago #32742 by uk gearmuncher

nell wrote: I seconded the NK Speedcoach in that last thread linked to above. Three more comments: the software update for my model now allows you to change the measurement in the upper left box, so now all four boxes are changeable. Secondly, this gps automatically turns on the backlight and leaves it on when you use it between sunset and sunrise which is a nice feature if your workouts occasionally extend into dusk or start before sunrise. Third - on the NK website, you can select a mounting base for the gps. I use the flat plate and put a few dabs of silicone glue on the back and glue it to the near vertical area at the front of the footwell. The plate is $5 so you can buy one for all your skis.
EBorgnes


Does the OC version work with kayaks for the stroke length and stroke rate metric ?

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2 weeks 5 days ago #32743 by nell
stroke rate, yes it works, but I find that the number bounces around a bit too much to be useful with a kayak paddle.

Stroke length also works, but again, it's using positional accuracy and stroke rate and I don't think it's too accurate or helpful with a kayak paddle. It works much better with a single blade paddle, a lower stroke rate, and when there's more of a speed change from stroke to stroke than you'd get in a ski.
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2 weeks 5 days ago #32744 by uk gearmuncher

nell wrote: stroke rate, yes it works, but I find that the number bounces around a bit too much to be useful with a kayak paddle.

Stroke length also works, but again, it's using positional accuracy and stroke rate and I don't think it's too accurate or helpful with a kayak paddle. It works much better with a single blade paddle, a lower stroke rate, and when there's more of a speed change from stroke to stroke than you'd get in a ski.


Hmm, maybe the motionize system and an iPhone is the way ahead then....

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2 weeks 4 days ago #32745 by gstamer
FWIW, I had trouble with GPS readings bouncing around with Motionize, to the point that I was not able to use it to detect speed changes due to technique changes. There was also some debate as to whether an iPhone GPS was as accurate as a Garmin Fenix or the equivalent. I never had luck getting a consistent "stroke shape" with the "overhead view". Perhaps the biggest issue is that you really can't save detailed stats (like Garmin connect), just some basic summary information. Perhaps some of these issues have been fixed, I haven't used mine in about a year.

While not perfect, I'm using a Fenix 3 and a Vaaka cadence sensor. Works well for most of I what I need. Big enough for me to read easily on the footstrap of a ski or foredeck of a kayak.

Greg

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2 weeks 4 days ago #32746 by roxii
First post here so please be gentle.
I'm new to ski's as an injury retired triathlete.
I have re purposed my Garmin Edge 800 and found a way to use the standard 1/4 turn mount onto my Epic footstraps.
Works great and is easy to see as the screen size is among the larger GPS's around, and because it a few models old now you can pick them up 2nd hand pretty cheap.

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2 weeks 4 days ago #32747 by robin.mousley

First post here so please be gentle.
I'm new to ski's as an injury retired triathlete.


Welcome Roxii to the best sport on the planet...! And thanks for the contribution!

Any chance you could post a photo of your setup?

Thanks!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others!

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2 weeks 4 days ago #32748 by roxii
Cheers thanks for the welcome.

Here’s the setup I have with the Garmin



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2 weeks 4 days ago #32756 by Bill L
nice set-up. I see the garmin 800 is IPX7 waterproof (1 meter for up to 30 minutes). Have you had in much roughwater and do you think it will hold up?

thanx,

Bill

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2 weeks 4 days ago #32757 by roxii

Bill L wrote: nice set-up. I see the garmin 800 is IPX7 waterproof (1 meter for up to 30 minutes). Have you had in much roughwater and do you think it will hold up?

thanx,

Bill


Im only about 3 months in to learning on a ski so it has certainly been wet. :laugh: Im paddling in Botany Bay in Sydney so its saltwater and can get plenty splashy and so far it seems to be holding up well.
It was an old cycling one for me so its not the end of the world if it dies but yeah no problems so far.
The screen size is good and the number of data fields is able to be customised and it can auto scroll through the screens as well so there are plenty of options. Gunna try and pair it with my cadence sensor next to see if I can track my stroke rate.
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2 weeks 1 day ago - 2 weeks 1 day ago #32777 by PeteCress
I still use a wristwatch Garmin - albeit velco'd to the hump between seat and leg area - for keeping track of laps, average speed, heart rate, and time of day.

But I find the Garmin hopeless for immediate speed - several-second update times just don't cut it when working on the stroke to see what diffs give an extra couple tenths of MPH.

So I supplement the Garmin with Velocitek's "Speed Puck": photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...W9IRknfsNQ8bgD1SaJeS and have it set to update speed several times per second.

Visibility is great - I can read it in my peripheral vision while enjoying the view ahead and it keeps me aware of the significant effects of things like how vertical my stroke is and how well I am rotating my body.

It's two weak points are lack of a Time-of-Day display and waterproofness. The battery cover screws into place and, if you get a wrinkle or some sand in the gasket, water infiltrates. Not quite as bad as it sounds in fresh water because the battery area is silicone-sealed prevent water getting into the rest of the device.

But I'm on my third one because of salt water infiltration, which rots the battery springs and eventually finds it's way into the guts of the thing.

The good part is that Velocitek USA's warranty support has been a twelve on a scale of 1-10.... I almost feel guilty at how readily they replaced the prior two units.

Now, on salt water, I stick it in a zip-lock bag just on GPs.

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