Shaft stiffness between paddle brands

1 month 4 weeks ago #37237 by BigFish
I am interested in observations of shaft stiffness between different brands.

For example - how does a Braca 19k soft and mid (~4.5 and ~3.4) compare to a Jantex soft and an Epic soft/mid? 

Current - Fenn Elite Glide, Fenn Elite S, Think UnoMax, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10 Double
Past - Think Ion, DD3 Albatross, Red7 Surf 60, Epic V10 2G

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1 month 4 weeks ago #37238 by mickeyA
Not based on laboratory proof:  I believe braca 19k is flexible, definitely moreso than jantex white letter/soft.  I have both.  The  Jantex scale, I believe, is based more for sprinters, so white letters/soft is still relatively firm for Surfski.  Jantex makes green letter/flexi-soft that is more flexible, but I would bet still less flexible than 19k braca.  I would say jantex is up there in stiffness as a general rule.  I think Oscar suggested braca make a “Surfski” specific shaft, one that was more flexible than what they had, and one that would extend 10cm, vs only 5cm, and that is the 19k.  It is easily my favorite shaft, especially over distance.  Cannot comment on epic or others.  Thanks.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37267 by Bartlett
Jantex has just launched a paddle shaft specifically for surfski paddlers. The “Super-Flex”. Orange stickers. It was introduced for the reason mentioned above that even the “Flexi-Soft” shaft was stiff for surfski. I have been using this new shaft for a couple of weeks and will stick with it. 

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37269 by waverider
How do these super flexible surfski shafts go when they also have to double up as a k1 paddle? particularly if using a smaller blade than you might normally choose for K1

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37274 by agooding2
I have not tried it, but Braca came out with a smaller diameter shaft called the 21K that is even more flexible than the 19K, designed by Oscar Chalupsky for surfski only. 

I use the 19K in a one piece and I suspect it flexes more than it would if it was a 2 piece.  An inbetween flex might be the 17K which I use in a two piece with my 705 blades, but my shoulders do get sore over 10 miles with that one.

-- Andrew

Nelo 550L, Think Fit, Nelo Viper 55

Braca XI 705 EL blade, 17K shaft
Braca XI 675 marathon blade, 19K shaft
Braca IV 670 soft blade, 19K shaft

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37275 by mickeyA
Smaller diameter in braca shaft?  How does that work with existing/older blade necks that fit larger diameter shafts?  Are they making all new blade necks to fit smaller 21k shafts?

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37276 by agooding2
I don't know I haven't seen any in person.  The 19K is flexible enough for me on flatwater.

Nelo 550L, Think Fit, Nelo Viper 55

Braca XI 705 EL blade, 17K shaft
Braca XI 675 marathon blade, 19K shaft
Braca IV 670 soft blade, 19K shaft

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37277 by mickeyA
How easy is it to change out jantex shafts?  I have 1 jantex gamma rio small plus with white letter/soft shaft, and am interested in the new orange letter/super flex shaft.  I have 3 braca paddles and find swapping out shafts to be extremely easy.  Just heat the necks up and shafts come right out. Is it same for jantex?  Who has these shafts in a USA and any idea of the cost?  Thanks.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37278 by sski
So for a 'very short' race like 1-3 miles, which Braca shaft would be best? Definitely stiffer than 19K? I've never had shoulder problems throughout my life (throwing sports when young, swimming or paddling). So why not very stiff?

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37279 by agooding2
You might check with whoever put the paddle together, if it was hot glue then they are easy to swap out, while epoxy would be impossible.  Elite Ocean Sports is one retailer that sells Jantex in the U.S., you might check with them about shafts. I would guess around $150 for a new shaft.

Nelo 550L, Think Fit, Nelo Viper 55

Braca XI 705 EL blade, 17K shaft
Braca XI 675 marathon blade, 19K shaft
Braca IV 670 soft blade, 19K shaft

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37280 by agooding2
I was thinking about the 06K if I was to buy a sprint paddle, but it depends on your strength and blade size.  There is information in the catalog suggesting sizes and stiffness. 

The 04K is stiffer, but I use fairly small blades myself and I don't have shoulder problems now, I just don't want to start.

Nelo 550L, Think Fit, Nelo Viper 55

Braca XI 705 EL blade, 17K shaft
Braca XI 675 marathon blade, 19K shaft
Braca IV 670 soft blade, 19K shaft

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1 month 3 weeks ago - 1 month 3 weeks ago #37283 by ccchappell
Hi
I'm the US importer for Braca Sport, my website is FastPaddler.com.  Couple of comments that hopefully add to the conversation regarding the Braca shafts:
- Yes, I have them all in stock, available via the web site.  I also stock 1 piece, but do not list them online, need to contact me directly.
-21k is 28mm diameter, so Braca includes .5mm shims to glue onto the shaft before assembling into the blade.  Required to get the proper alignment as some folks have noted. Attached is a picture.  Once the shaft is cut to length, just glue these on with crazy or gorilla glue, let set, then assemble the paddle as usual with Braca hot glue.
- Braca has had flexible hybrid shafts for a while, 05K and 09K, blend of fiberglass and carbon.  Before the 19K and latest 21K these were the most flexible shafts they offered, with the 17K being the softest all carbon shaft.  Feedback from the Surfski community spearheaded by Oscar was  there was a need a softer all carbon shaft that was light and has a very fast recovery unlike the hybrid kevlar/fiberlgass shafts.  Braca came out with the 19K which was the softest all carbon shaft available with only a couple of the hybrid shafts overall softer.   Year and half ago, Oscar visited the Braca factory for a week and half and worked with them on developing an even softer all carbon shaft, the 21K.  Braca manufactures their own carbon fiber that they actually sell to many industries outside of kayaking, and also manufactures all their own shafts.  Here is a link to some videos Oscar took at the factory.   https://fastpaddler.com/oscar-chalupsky-videos-of-braca-sport-factory/

So to make the 21K super flexible, while keeping it 100% carbon to maintain the quick recovery, Braca had to make the diameter smaller, 28mm.   This allowed them to get the flex they wanted, super fast recovery and still meet their durability spec.   Really cool shaft if you have not tried.  I personally love it in the ocean...of course I am biased :)

Braca also has a spec to measure flexibility of all the shafts, I actually have the set up as well to compare different shafts at times.  Pretty simple. 10kg weigth, piece of extruded aluminum and a digital dial indicator. Pic attached.   

Also, note that Braca does not use a ferule on there 2 piece shafts.  The male end of the shaft is 1 piece.   They are very meticulous in trying to make the flex of 2 piece shaft as continuous as possible, and a ferule epoxied into the shaft makes this near impossible.  If you are ever at an large European event and Braca is there, swing by the tent and ask to talk to one of the owners: Andrash or Arunas.   2 very proud gentlemen who love to talk about paddles and specifically the effort they put into the shafts.

Any questions please feel free to contact me directly from web site.
Chris Chappell
Braca Sport US Distributor
FastPaddler.com

 
Attachments:

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1 month 3 weeks ago #37302 by mickeyA
I can attest to braca 19k shafts being easy on joints and easy to swap out.  Chris is also great to work with. Not sure about the new 21k shafts and shims.  Prob great and easy, but have not tried. I attempted to find the jantex “super flex” shaft replacements, but no luck.  Biggest issue appears to be that jantex epoxies the blades on vs using hot glue.  So, I will not attempt to replace the shaft.  Why epoxy?  I’m sure someone will say glued on shafts fall off in use or in sun, but I’ve never come close to having a (properly) glued braca blade come off—unless it is under the heat gun and a pulling force.  The biggest advancements in paddles are currently in the shafts, not the blades, so swapping out for new technology shaft is like having a new paddle.  Bottom line is I have easily replaced shafts on 3 sets of braca blades, and I would like to do the same for my one jantex paddle, but it appears to be permanent. Glad I have 3 braca paddles and one jantex vs other way around.

Epic V12, V10Sport, Fenn Tarpon S, Swordfish S, Stellar SE, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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1 month 2 weeks ago #37303 by Bartlett
The Jantex paddles that I have sold in the past 3 years(I am the agent in Dubai) have been glued with hot glue so easy to remove the blades and put a new shaft in. The clamp is on with epoxy. So a new clamp may mean cutting the old one off. By the way, we have a few paddlers whose paddles live in their cars, which will by 50-60C inside on hot days as the outdoor temperature is 40-45 every day in the summer. We have not had issues with blades coming off. 

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