Vajda Orca

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10 years 8 months ago #8095 by Boef
Vajda Orca was created by Boef
I need some more info on this ski (in a hurry). I read Johnathan Sanders' review. Anyone else have something to share? Would like to know what it does in conditions - ie. stability, comfort, downwind (preferably from someone that does not have a host of national titles under the belt) :unsure:

Thanks.

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10 years 8 months ago #8097 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Vajda Orca
It's can politely be called very similar to a V10 with a slightly smaller rudder.

The only differences is a rounded 30cm front section on the nose, as in it's rocker profile and reduced out of the water volume because of a relief on either side, in the rear than a V10.
The rear of the boat has also been rounded to a point instead of a transform.

Pretty much indistinguishable to paddle side by side.
The bucket is identical apart from minor changers around the feet area and slightly tighter profile at the top of the rear portion, making it seem a little tighter.

The seams of the boat are physically very small compared to Epic, so it measures a little bit narrower and you notice this at paddle entry.

Like I said, getting out of an Epic V10 and into the Orca just means looking at different colours and a nose that doesn't grab weeds like the Epic.

The new steering assembly works well and the boats are finished to quite a high standard.

Vajda have been in the white water business for a long time, so I suspect that they know something about strength in their choice of layups.
The kevlar one feels incredibly light at around 9kg.
This definitely shows in acceleration, even in the flat.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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10 years 8 months ago #8100 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Interesting to hear your thoughts, other reviews had made me think the bucket was very different from the V10 (which I have owned).

Jon's review (below) said,

"But most importantly, in my opinion the Vajda Orca Ski has the most comfortable bucket on the market; because when you can’t sit comfortably in a craft, you can’t perform at your best! The bucket is raised so that it is higher than the footwell, like in a K1. This allows the paddler to sit upright or forward, rotate through the torso and drive with the legs to generate real power. The higher seat also made it possible for Vajda to flatten the seat, so that the hip bones don’t get pushed in and up. The hump between the bucket and the footwell is no problem on this ski."

Given the not too disimilar changeover from your V10 can we read into this that this may be on the list for RAB's possible new ski?

Always looking for the next boat :)

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8101 by wobblypaddler
Replied by wobblypaddler on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Hi,
thought I might give you my 2 cents worth. I am an average paddler who has been fortunate over the past 6 years, to own and paddle a variety of the "top" skis, Epics, Fenns, Hukis and now the Orca. I fully agree with Jon's review and can offer the following after 4 months of paddling the ski 3-4 days a week in most conditions:

It is extremely comfortable, stability at first seems a little strange coming from a Fenn Elite, as the seating position is higher, but this soon is forgotten and turns into a plus as it enables rotation and nice leg drive. It surfs very well, different from the Elite, not better or worse just different. It took me a month or so to get used to it and now I find it catches runs easily and tracks great.

I really enjoy paddling the boat, I was having "tight hip" issues which completely disappeared with the Orca.

I have let a few guys try it and they have all loved it.

The construction is great, I like the finish and am extremely happy with my purchase. I have the middle level construction, which is perfect for me as I tend to be tough on boats and this seems very sturdy.

I hope this helps.

I should add that I don't find the seat to be at all like the Epic, it isn't as deep and is shaped differently.

I have nothing to do with any boat manufacturer...
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by wobblypaddler.

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10 years 8 months ago #8102 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Vajda Orca

wobblypaddler wrote: I really enjoy paddling the boat, I was having "tight hip" issues which completely disappeared with the Orca.


Interesting to hear you say that, that is why I was interested in trying this ski. I am suffering from Chronic ITB issues that seem to stem from hip/glute tightness. I have had all manner of treatment without success and in desperation more than anything resorted to padding up the seat up my ski to lift my butt out of the tightish bottom of the bucket. It's too soon to know if this may have been the cause but if it was it wasn't obvious over the 8 months I've been paddling my new ski.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8106 by wobblypaddler
Replied by wobblypaddler on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Good luck with the tight ITB. I had a very similar condition and went through Acupuncture, Rolfing and even Prolo-therapy to relieve some of the discomfort. Mine came from riding track on motorcycles along with a combination of paddling.

If I may make a suggestion; I ended up using new tennis balls to roll on the tight area, gradually working them in deeper (as I got used to the bloody pain). It really helped soften up the area and get some blood flowing.

The Orca, just gives me more room and doesn't compact the hip area for some reason.

Again, good luck.
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by wobblypaddler.

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10 years 8 months ago #8107 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Vajda Orca

wobblypaddler wrote: went through Acupuncture, Rolfing and even Prolo-therapy to relieve some of the discomfort. ....I ended up using new tennis balls to roll on the tight area, gradually working them in deeper


So far - Remedial Massage, Physio (Massage, acupuncture, laser???) Chiro (lower back adjustment), Sports doc (injected one hip with cortisone, no improvement, so tried aneasthetic in other hip, improved for one week then no different). I was throwing all my resources at this as I had put almost 6 months of training 5-6 days a week for an adventure race but gave up a few weeks ago, as even if I did get right I have lost too much running fitness to do as well as I had planned, so now racing in a team and focussing on paddling and riding well. No more treatment, just using the tennis ball and foam roller.

Paddling injuries is an interesting area, obviously as mentioned the sitting position in a K1 is so different (allows better rotation and no hip pinching) I tried to get my Sports Physio and Sports Doc to consider whether my paddling action or seating position may be playing a part but they dismissed it ( I would suggest through a lack of familiarity with the sport). Ocean ski racing is such a niche sport there is just not the numbers to identify a trend in injuries.

I guess another thing to muddy the waters is that this injury is only highlighted it paddlers who also do sports requiring run type movements. One of the better paddlers in our area (Bigadski)mentioned to me that he used to run but stopped due to ITB problems. (I should ask him if he got it after he took up paddling?)

Always looking for the next boat :)

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10 years 8 months ago #8109 by Boef
Replied by Boef on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Bingo on this one. Have exactly the same problem from a deeper bucket. Hip pinch appears almost uncurable. I've been to a doc, chiropractor (injections to bursa didnt help), physios, sports therapists. gonna give the tennis ball a go. Its absolutely due to posture and the seat - I had a seat made up by Jamii in Cape Town - that resembles a k1 seat - and that made the discomfort bearable.

To put it differently I've never heard of a person paddling a flat xt bucket complaining of hip pinch. Seems the Orca may be different bucket.

thanks all for the responses.

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8110 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Not sure if ITB is the same as sore hip flexors? Thats the issue I got paddling my Epic V10L, changing to a Stellar SES solved the problem as the hump was a lot lower.
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8113 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Footplate and pedals are a little different to the Epic.
They are a touch longer and suit a larger foot better than the Epic.

Strength, creakiness, etc are fine, and I like the rough texture on them as it is the same as I applied to my own pedals.

The biggest single difference between the two boats is the Orca has a slightly smaller rudder that doesn't tip the boat as much as the Epic surfing rudder.
Because of the slight volume reduction in the rear, it picks up the wave a little later and the boat stays a little higher on the wave because of it.

It still has the V10 inherent problem of the back end moving unpredictably every now and again.
I think that this is because of the flatish profile of the rear and the Orca does nothing to address this.

The V12 in contrast has a narrower tail that sits in the water better and doesn't do the strange things the V10 does.

Otherwise it paddles like a V10.

The bucket; I'm sure a mold could be made in one bucket and placed perfectly in the other, they are that close apart from around the foot area.

For me, I simply place the footboard in the same set of holes as the V10, jump in and go.
It feels no different and is as comfortable as the V10 which suits my bum perfectly.

I don't hold allegiances to any brand, and yes I am considering a Vadjer as it has been offered to me at an attractive price for the super light one.
But I am under no foolish belief that it is anything but a V10 slightly changed.

RAB's list at the moment stands at:

Think UNOmax I think potentially a very fast boat, may take a little getting used to. Love the fitout

Vadjer Due to similarity to my old one and heavy discounting.

Epic V12 Had a test one for a couple of days and had a great run downwind. Seems to have fixed V10 problems and encourages you to have a real go as it never seems to hit the brick wall.

Stellar SES, don't want to like this boat, but I do. It's the real surprise package, only concern is if it has enough volume for big days.
Love that it is super narrow but no tippier and has the best catch in the market.

Stealth Locally produced and I can have input to the construction.
Tippy due to high seat, but it never threw me out and punches through small waves better than anything. Just seems to want to crawl over any wave in front of it and jump into the holes.
The single best rudder I have ever paddled.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by Rightarmbad.

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10 years 8 months ago #8116 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Re: Vajda Orca
RAM: Any reason why the Elite or Elite SL is on your list?

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10 years 8 months ago #8117 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Vajda Orca
I presume you meant to say 'why are they not on my list'.

I like the time I have spent in the Elite SL, but, the bucket does not really fit me.
It felt wrong when I first got in, I seemed to forget about it after a couple of KM, but there is a suspicion on my part that I will not be comfortable for a couple of hours or more.

The only way to test this would be to have one for a couple of long paddles but that is something that a seller would have to offer me, or to run into one paddling and talk nicely to the owner.

So it is safer for me to stick to a bucket shape I know works fine.
The Fenn buckets all seem to tip me backwards and try and jam my bum into the middle lowest section. This I also find hinders my rotation.
I am scared that it may give me a dead leg.
But I am mainly concerned for my back, I simply do not ever want to injure this again.

I haven't paddled an Elite for more than a couple of quick trips up the creek and in the alley, but it gave me the same impression as the SL in the seat department.
I'm a person that has a bum, I'm a runner and a cyclist, not a no bum type that rub their cocyx.

It has been suggested that a seat pad makes all the difference, but I hate them, my bum wants to slide on the seat to rotate, bum pads stop this and that puts a lot of stress on my lower back.

I honestly don't know how anybody can paddle with them.
As for the mythical raise they may give, after you measure the amount they compress, even a very high seatpad offers very little real elevation.
The seat pads that I have had to paddle on because they were in boats only made my leg go to sleep as they put pressure outside of my sit bones.

So as it stands, unless I can get into the Fenns for a couple of days to do a long test in them, I am safer to stick to what I know.
It's a pity really, because they are both a great surf boat from my limited experience in them.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #8123 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Re: Vajda Orca
B) 2 typos in the one-liner.....

My solution to avoid but pain is to cut/fit a rectangular shaped minicell piece in the middle of the seat. I use standard carpet tape to fix it as it is easy to remove.

My approx size 6,5 x 8 x 1,5 cm (cut the top edges at an 30-45 degree angle to avoid rubbing. Fitted right you will not feel it.

This fits between the two butt bones which are about 6-7 cm apart (whatever they are called)and forward like a narrow bike seat. Ie. you take a bum pad with two holes and cut away everything except the foam between the two holes.

The benefit is that it reduces / elevates the bony parts of the butt and allows full rotation. The fact that it stays in place with indoor carpet tape tells me that rotation is not reduced.

The other benefit is that it helps you keep centered in the seat in choppy waters, even if the boat jumps around.

Off topic....sorry!
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by fredrik.

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10 years 8 months ago #8128 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: Vajda Orca

Rightarmbad wrote: "It still has the V10 inherent problem of the back end moving unpredictably every now and again.

The V12 in contrast has a narrower tail that sits in the water better and doesn't do the strange things the V10 does.

Epic V12 Had a test one for a couple of days and had a great run downwind. Seems to have fixed V10 problems and encourages you to have a real go as it never seems to hit the brick wall."

Just goes to show how different people will interpret the feel of different skis... I have paddled a V12 Ultra for almost a year and a half and my opinion of it versus the V10 in conditions would be exactly the opposite. I find the V12 to be incredibly 'busy' most of the time and have a harder time picking up and then sitting on runs in it versus the V10. The V10 is a touch slower in flat conditions in my hands and certainly feels bigger versus the V12, but I'm too slow in flat conditions for it to matter.
Guess this is why there are so many different skis out there, different strokes for different folks as they say.

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10 years 8 months ago #8130 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Vajda Orca

fredrik wrote: B) 2 typos in the one-liner.....

My solution to avoid but pain is to cut/fit a rectangular shaped minicell piece in the middle of the seat. I use standard carpet tape to fix it as it is easy to remove.

My approx size 6,5 x 8 x 1,5 cm (cut the top edges at an 30-45 degree angle to avoid rubbing. Fitted right you will not feel it.


A photo or two would be great...and post them in the "Hip Pinch Thread! Cheers.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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10 years 8 months ago #8132 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Vajda Orca
I don't mind a boat being 'busy', but the V10 just throws in some unpredictable moves in every now and again that may or may not catch you out.
A 'busy' ski on the other hand, is giving constant feedback about it's motion.

But that is me, doesn't matter what type of thing it is, a car, a boat, a bike, I like it to be a little twitchy so I can pickup movements and weight shifts earlier.

But I want twitchy in how it responds to input and it's environment, not twitchy as in 'all over the place makes no sense to what I observe and feel'.

I certainly don't like major sifts in the rear end of the boat unless I can feel or see that it is about to happen.
If I can predict it, then it it is really no problem, something out of the blue just leaves me wet and scratching my head.

My summary of the V12/V10 difference would be this.
V12 picks up waves later, sits higher on the wave and then can duck down into holes with more speed.
Is a worse if you get it wrong and plow your nose into the wave in front as it just stalls.

Is actually more stable in moving water than the V10 as is seems to have a stronger secondary stability.
The rear end always feels well rooted and predictable.

Can get antsy in apoptic water due to less primary stability, but is actually more forgiving in those circumstances as it always seems catchable due to the secondary.

You need to lean forward less to accelerate on to a run, it seems to do this by itself, also it seems to need less backward lean to stop the nose burying in steeper stuff.

Best of all, it just seems to encourage you to really have a go as just a little more effort seems to reward.

I believe there is a major difference in the V12 in how it responds depending on your weight, 80kg and lower types seem to think it wobbly, bigger guys all seem to think it is stable as all hell.

I'm one of the later.

Strangely, the V12 feels to have more rocker, when it actually has less, I put that down to the back end being able to sink in a little easier than the V10

I may have adapted to Epic hulls in general, as I find both boats sit very still for me and other brands move around a fair bit under me.

I have to admit, when I was shopping for a boat originally, the V12 was just too scary and I bought the V10 instead.
I was also dealing with a pretty injured back with very small mobility though.


I do believe that given time, we are amazingly adaptable to almost any boat that isn't just a lemon.



I just love thread hijacks, we seem to be getting better at it lately, almost every thread has gone off on a tangent.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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10 years 8 months ago #8133 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Like I said, different strokes...

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10 years 8 months ago #8134 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Vajda Orca

Rightarmbad wrote: I just love thread hijacks, we seem to be getting better at it lately, almost every thread has gone off on a tangent.


:laugh: By the time I had finished reading this post I couldn't remember what the thread topic was. It's a pity gems such as these posts are hidden away from those who coming searching later. That's why on occassion I try to cut and paste them to a searchable thread topic.

Interested to read about your thoughts on the V10/12. You have mentioned the rear end throwing in some unpredictablity, that was the only reason I sold it. Was this "-" close to buying a V12 for all the reasons you have mentioned but the only thing that put me off was the volume (for my type of racing in cross chop/wind). If I was only racing downwind then it would be back on my list of possible skis to own in the future.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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10 years 8 months ago #8135 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: Vajda Orca
I think in predictable downwind conditions, paddling directly into waves, and on the flat the V12 (mine was an Ultra) is a nice ski, and the secondary stability is really confidence inspiring.
My issue with the ski is that day in, day out, the amount of busy movement the ski produces wears you out prematurely, and while I'm faster in the ski on a short paddle, after an hour and a half or so I am consistently more tired in it than in any other ski I've paddled. This seems to lead to slower times over long distances compared to my other skis, and I find I'm less fresh when I'm finished. I also find that it doesn't track as well as my other skis, seems to be easily pushed around by waves. I am currently paddling a ski that is less stable overall but have none of these problems with the ski. Do I miss the secondary stability? Yes, but that's really about all I miss compared to my current ski.
I have spoken with a number of people who have owned and paddled the ski extensively and most of the people I know who moved on have the same impression of the ski. The ones who don't move on, either like the other aspects of the ski enough to overlook these issues, or it just doesn't bother them.
I'm also not crazy about the pointy flares around the bucket. I assume some of the secondary stability comes from these but I find I bump them with my paddle from time to time and feel that at times they impede my catch compared with some of my other skis with more tradition shape in that area.
If those things don't bother you, it is a great overall ski... hell, I dealt with them for over a year b/c I liked so many other aspects of the ski (the bucket, the weight, the bailer system, the speed on the flat, the looks, the ease of adjustment of the footplate system). In the end, I just got tired of the constant micro-input/feedback/busy movement day after day, so I made a switch.
I'm not saying that I'm crazy about the V10, I'm not (which is why I don't own one), I just like certain aspects and dynamics of the way it paddles compared to the V12.
We did hijack the thread a bit... Sorry.

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10 years 8 months ago #8143 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Re: Vajda Orca
Confusing opinions. RAB, are the v10 and v12 seats similar (in other words opposed to a deep curved Fenn Elite type seat)? In rough conditions side swell, upwind downwind - would you still prefer the v12 over the v10?

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