Energy Supplements

9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #10858 by Geofff
Energy Supplements was created by Geofff
I'm working up for a long race and in the process am trying to get a good energy supplement which is both effective and easy to use. When doing long (ish) running, I normally use GU energy gels however I find these quite troublesome to consume when paddling downwind in a big swell.

Any recommendations on easy to use energy supplements that are suitable for surf ski's?

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9 years 6 months ago #10859 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Energy Supplements
In a recent 30km marathon race I didn't want to have to reach for gels and risk falling off the wash of another ski so I tried BSc sports drink, I usually use a drink with less carbohydrate for long races where I can take on gels and bars. This one worked really well, although it doesn't have any caffeine so I added 120mg by way of a caffeine shot to the 3 litre bladder. The tin is only $12 here which is good value compared to a lot of other brands I have tried over the years.

I also like Hammer and Endura products but they are pricey compared to this one.

Always looking for the next boat :)
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9 years 6 months ago #10863 by Ronnycox
Replied by Ronnycox on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Good topic!

I've had a few issues with trying to grab gels during a race. The most embarrsing was falling off in dead flat water a few years ago.

I still go with the gels, 1) for the caffeine hit, and 2) the sports drinks don't seem to be enough for me. I usually run gatorade in camel pak and a couple of gels.

A few things have made getting to the gels easier, is to pre-rip them a little bit before the race, then sticky tape to your boat between your legs. Makes for an easy rip when you grab it.
The other is to tuck them into the leg of your shorts (and makes you look like you have massive package albeit a slighlty odd shape)

Hope that helps

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9 years 6 months ago #10868 by robin.mousley

A few things have made getting to the gels easier, is to pre-rip them a little bit before the race, then sticky tape to your boat between your legs. Makes for an easy rip when you grab it.


Agreed, except that I tape them on the side of the cockpit within easy reach. If taped properly along the top edge, and especially if they're pre-ripped, as you grab one one, the top is ripped off. Bung it in your mouth, squeeze and you've got about as quick a refuelling as you can get. (Try not to discard the empty sachet into the ocean!)

I've seen guys use a small squeeze bottle too - stored either in the front pocket of their PFD (dodgy IMO, likely to cause you to fall off) or in their shorts leg as Ronnycox describes.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #10870 by Shady
Replied by Shady on topic Re: Energy Supplements
I've used water based energy drinks in a bladder. Makes it easy to keep paddling while your taking sustanance on board.
I've tried the milk based ones and it all came back up. Luckily not in race situation.
Best to look to for a mixture of simple and complex carbs and make sure there's plenty of electrolytes (Calcium, Magnesium, Potasium and Sodium.

Epic V10 Sport Performance

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9 years 6 months ago #10872 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Energy Supplements
My question, is why do you even consider gels unless your intended race is 5 or 6 hours?

A sugary drink is easier to digest, has the required water built in, tastes good and is easier logistically.
You can also mix your own strength of sugar to match what your stomach can handle.

Gels advantage lay in events where water is available externally so just carrying the sugar is a performance benefit.
The other place they may shine is if you have difficulty running high sugar concentrations in you water, or if you have a danger of ingesting too much water throughout the event to try and get the calories needed.

So of all the surfski races I see, only the few megalong ones have any requirement for anything other than an energy drink.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 6 months ago #10878 by Geofff
Replied by Geofff on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Thanks for all the tips; very useful. I've got a race this weekend and will try the pre-ripped and taped gels (although tempting to go for the 'package' look).

RAB, the race I'm working up for is the Molokai and while I hope to finish it in a fair bit less than 5 hours, I think I will probably need the additional carb hit. I've done a fair few 30+Km training rus and on the occasions I didn't use gels (lost them overboard), I flagged from about the 25k mark.

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9 years 6 months ago #10880 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Energy Supplements
With RAB on this one, I don't see the requirement for them in most ski races. You can get enough calories from your drinks.

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9 years 6 months ago #10881 by Ronnycox
Replied by Ronnycox on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Here's a good resource I just remembered about.

The AIS have some facts sheets on gels, sports drinks etc

www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplem...lassification_-_test

For me, and it is probably each to their own, I get really hungry around the 1hr to 1.15 in the race. The sports drinks help but only the gels stop me from really bonking out.

Ronny

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9 years 6 months ago #10882 by Geofff
Replied by Geofff on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Great link, thanks Ronny! Armed with the data in the link I might try and see if changing brands of sports drink will help. Would certainly make it a lot easier if I don't have to worry about handling gels etc.

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9 years 6 months ago #10883 by Physio
Replied by Physio on topic Re: Energy Supplements
I use a leppin squeezy racer www.leppinsport.com/product.cfm?p=44
Its a gel which comes in a 350ml bottle i put a plastic tube from the top and place it in the front of my pfd, which has a foam block to hold it in place. I'll take a photo

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9 years 6 months ago #10884 by EK Sydney
Replied by EK Sydney on topic Re: Energy Supplements
I've done a few long crossings & days at sea over the past year & the goo/drink combo I've found works really well is e-Load. The best thing about them is the lack of taste, which means for the drink especially you can use the correct mix (ie lots of it) without it tasting like golden syrup. And, as they're mae by the same mob they're designed to directly complement each other.
On a 117km day-paddle last week all I ate on the hour were e-Load gels, no solid foods at all, & I didn't once get that awful weariness you get on those sort of days when you've buggerred up your fuelling. I went through 9 litres of maxxed e-Load drink as well, and while I didn't crave a sweet drink when I landed I wasn't sick to the stomach of it either.
It probably has less relevance to the relatively short ski races & training but I can't recommend them highly enough for sustaining enbergy levels over long & demanding days.
Mark.

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9 years 6 months ago #10885 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Are there any neagatives to using high carb intake. My sole experience was taking one before a race and one during a race....and a few jellybeans pre race. Finishing the race and then aquainting myself with the white porcelain every 20 minutes. A well credentialled mate informed me this is a side effect of too many gels.

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9 years 6 months ago #10886 by Dudley78
Replied by Dudley78 on topic Re: Energy Supplements
I am no expert but I use the rule that basically you use 1g of carbs for each KG of body weight per hour. So say a 75KG person could ingest up to 75g of carbs per hour taking into consideration that energy drinks and gels both have carbs in them. If you take too many carbs there is basically a bottleneck in your gastro-intestinal tract which will make you feel blotted. I personally use a electrolyte drink without carbs and use gels on 20-30min basis for energy consumption. As I stated I am far from any expert.
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9 years 6 months ago #10897 by TonyB
Replied by TonyB on topic Re: Energy Supplements
The maximal glucose absorption rate is about 1g/min or 60g/hr. Addition of fructose can bump this up to about 75g/hr. Some gels or drinks contain glucose only, others contain both. Most sports drinks contain between 60 and 75g per litre therefore to achieve maximum glucose absorption requires about 1000ml/hr to be drunk if that is the sole source of carbs and this is a big ask. It also can result in overhydration which can be dangerous.

Gels contain about 25-30g. Therefore a combination of both gels and drink allows an adequate glucose intake without excess fluids

If excessive carbohydrate is ingested and maximum absorption is exceeded then it will sit in the stomach and cause bloating or vomiting

At the start of event when fuelled up there is generally enough glycogen and blood glucose for about an hour. After that the more ineffective fat burning takes over. It is true that athletes can become more efficient fat burners through training however ingested carbohydrates are an easy efficient energy source to supplement fat burning.

There is also the additional need for electrolytes to replace sodium and magnesium to prevent cramping.

Therefore for long events eg Molokai a mix of gels/bars and sports drinks/electrolyte drinks/water are recommended. Personally I use the same as Dudley78, that is predominately an electrolyte drink (sits better in the stomach than a Sports drink) and a gel or bar every 20 - 30 minutes. I find Hi5 the best gels as they are very liquid and slide down easily as opposed to the thicker gels that almost need to be chewed.
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9 years 6 months ago #10899 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Energy Supplements
I've never gone down the solid food route.
With fructose based drinks I have no problems mixing them at twice the normal rate.
Your results may vary, my brother was a classic finish the race and barf kind of guy, but for me no problems.
I've even gone as high as three times normal concentrations.
I also don't mind a very sugary taste if the flavour is right.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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9 years 6 months ago #10903 by robin.mousley
Probably the most important tip on this is to try before you buy ie make sure that you've tested your solution before the race.

What works for me is to use a drink (in my case something called PVM), taking a couple of mouthfulls every 30 minutes. After two hours I start with gels, taking one every 30mins, along with the drink.

I know that some guys like the feeling of something in their stomach after a couple of hours and will eat energy bars.

Anyway... to reiterate - never change what you do on race day - make sure that the drink and gels and energy bars agree with you in practise runs before the big day.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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9 years 6 months ago #10936 by Physio
Replied by Physio on topic Re: Energy Supplements
back to the dificulty of getting gels whille paddling, here is what i do for long races, have actually only used river kayaking, but the principles the same.
1 bottle of gel with a tube, next to my drink tube, so i can drink without stopping paddling, and can have plain water when want.



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9 years 6 months ago #10941 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re: Energy Supplements
Good to see the 73rd ranked paddler in the world sharing their knowledge and expertise with us mere mortals TonyB. Keep up the good work.

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