Forward leaning bucket?

4 years 1 week ago #30361 by balance_fit
Replied by balance_fit on topic Forward leaning bucket?

... Now I read about Nelo. Looks like they have adjustable angle footplate (unlike my Epic and Fenn) and claim their seat is higher than others. Hmmmmm. Sounds like they have guys like me in mind. So, how does Nelo 520 compare to V10Sport, mainly regarding ergonomics? Thanks.


Hi MickeyA

I demoed a carbon Nelo 520 recently. I can attest to the fact that the bucket is slightly higher than my XT. Very ergonomic, and very stable. Sorry I can't compare to the V10S, but the 520 felt more stable than the XT, so you might be able to make some correlations if you've also paddled an XT.
The footboard angle was appropriate for my particular ankle dorsiflexion limitation, but i felt it give in slightly with leg pressure.

JD

Simple, not easy.

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1 year 9 months ago #36029 by malvina
Replied by malvina on topic Forward leaning bucket?
I know the post is a bit old but, just in case someone is still interested in creating a forward leaning bucket, I though I would mention Epic´s back pad (attached link). It is designed to force the top of your hip forward and, at least for me, it works quite well. Big improvement in my posture. Not a good idea to use it in downwinds, as it would not let you lean back, but it is a velcro attachment so it just takes a second to remove it.

www.epickayaks.com/product-page/back-pad

Great post by the way, lots of good info on the topic.

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1 year 9 months ago #36032 by LaPerouseBay

Hi MickeyA
Second, I've placed attention to hamstring stretching, and pelvic position awareness training.
Sitting on the bare floor, I would achieve a neutral pelvis, measure the resulting knee flexion that my hamstrings would allow, and extrapolate these measurements and position to my ski foot brace adjustment.
Sitting exercises to further increase tolerance to the neutral pelvic position were added. As an example, stretch band row, vertical rows with a weighted bar and over head pullover to further challenge the neutral pelvic posture.
Once paddling, I remain in constant contact with the foot brace, since this eases the attainment of neutral pelvic position.
This has worked for me. Maybe the heel angle is not your issue. But finding, and attaining and holding neutral pelvic position, might save your spine from future issues.
Regards
JD


What a pleasure to read some old stuff from paddlefit.  That guy is the best.  Pure gold.  

Here's a video I like to look at to reinforce my belief that attempting to generate power in a ski without posture is folly.  Kelly Starrett has a great video about an hour long about it.  He talks to a class of fellow Physical Therapists.  He explains that the body is hardwired to shut down power to the muscles - if the spine is not aligned correctly. 

I'm fortunate to have a massage every 2 weeks from a super talented therapist.  I like to quiz her about my S.I. and how it's doing.  It's always good.  Then I ask her about some patients that are not so lucky.  It's really, really sad.  I'm also lucky to have naturally flexy hams.  They get fused up a bit, but she gets her elbows in there and really goes deep.  Good thing about the hammies is that they don't register much pain with that therapy.   She can jam really deep in my lumbar too.   If I've been misbehaving, I'll know it.  That systems was a train wreck some years ago.  It was tough to sort out.  I overdid it in ski and the whole deck of cards fell.  Lucky for me I could rest and fix it.  Some don't have that luxury.  Long spells sitting etc...

Ski actually fixed my decades long lumbar pain, so I can empathize.  I was lucky to find ski.  I was also lucky that I was able to gradually start a process of regeneration of some messed up lumbar disks.  I've never had an MRI, but I'm sure they are less than ideal.  It's really common.  Good news is that they can and will regenerate if you can stop abusing them.  Posture is step one.  If you continue to exercise with bad posture it's just a matter of time until it's too late.  As in, sorry, you ain't coming back from this one.  Too much "arthritis" or "bone spurs" in the joint.  That's what happens naturally.  Our bodies deposit calcium in bad places if range of motion does not keep it out. 

Don't slouch.  Sit up like an athlete.  All sports are the same.  The magic happens when you get your hips in it.  You can't get your hips in the game if you slouch.  You can try, but the stabilizers won't last forever, then you are done.  Watch any girl in a ski.   See that posture?  Do that.  

 

downwind dilettante
The following user(s) said Thank You: ErikE

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1 year 9 months ago #36035 by ErikE
Replied by ErikE on topic Forward leaning bucket?

Kelly Starrett has a great video about an hour long about it. 


It appears he has also written a book: www.amazon.com/Waterman-2-0-Optimized-Mo...n-Free/dp/0692070656
Anybody who has read it?  Something you would recommend?

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1 year 9 months ago #36037 by LaPerouseBay
Thanks for the heads up on the new book.  I didn't buy "The Supple Leopard" but I'll get this on Kindle:    www.amazon.com/dp/B07NLHRNQ2/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_tmb

Here is that video I was talking about. 


downwind dilettante

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1 year 9 months ago #36040 by Steve Hansen
Kelley also has a video of his attempt at the Molokai crossing. In it he says he trained for months, but in the end had stability issues in a V8.

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1 year 9 months ago - 1 year 9 months ago #36062 by qmento
Replied by qmento on topic Forward leaning bucket?
 For anyone still reading this post I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I made a forward leaning bucket on my V8 by padding up the back of the bucket making it more vertical and utilizing a 2cm Paddle2Fitness pad to raise the seating height. The combo helps with establishing and maintaining a more "aggressive" posture while paddling.
Downsides, well ... it hinders leaning way back, but I don't ride big waves anyway. Also raising the seat height makes the ski a little tippier, but it is a V8 - way stable to begin with and padding the bucket up to my hips helped mitigate the additional instability.
Carved up some glued together sheets of foam camping mat, then glued on some nylon/spandex to the foam. The whole kit is velcro'd into the bucket. It's working pretty well, as long as the pad stays wet the hips can slide around ok 
Attachments:

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2 months 17 hours ago #39064 by Dratz
Replied by Dratz on topic Forward leaning bucket?
This is an old thread but I thought it might be worth reopening. A few of you might have seen my post on seating position in the swordy. I bought a Fennix spark this year and love it (but it is probably a little unstable for me in bigger conditions, hence I kept the swordy). Point is, it has a typical Fenn bucket that I think tends to encourage a bit of slouch paddling on flat water. The result, suboptimal leg drive and a fatigued trunk to keep the pelvis in a neutral position. One part of the issue is seat height relative to heels, and the other relates to the rearward angle of the bottom of the bucket relative to horizontal. Epics, thinks, NK, seem to have a flatter and marginally higher bucket that for this paddler encourages better posture and rotation.
On a downwind, however, with the nose of the ski angled down by a varying amount, suddenly the Fenn bucket transforms into an ergonomic powerhouse. Leg drive and rotation feel effortless, like a completely different boat. 
I’ve experimented in the swordy with foam pads but always felt that the compressibility introduced new issues, preventing optimal rotation by causing my ischial tuberosities (sit bones) to stick a bit.
My solution was to build a hard glass moulded seat, which made a bit difference.
Ive done the same now with the spark, this time with carbon/epoxy for the top and bottom skin and two part pourable rigid foam shaped and feathered as the core. The seat height has raised about 8-10mm (trading a touch of stability) but the main effect has been a slight forward lean. Another by product that I did not anticipate was that by raising my pelvis and hips up into a wider part of the curved bucket, an initially snug  fit loosened up by a fraction actually necessitating thin foam pads laterally. 
The weight of the seat insert is about 70g. I have stuck it in with double sided tape after playing around with the position. This doubles to protect the ski’s bucket underneath from undue pressure points. 
I am very happy with the result. 
 

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1 month 4 weeks ago #39072 by Salty Frog
Replied by Salty Frog on topic Forward leaning bucket?
Totally amateur paddler here  with realy poor flexibility but just in case it helps someone out there, my son who is studying anatomy as part of his sonography course found a guy that looks like he has interesting information/exercises specific to feet, ankles, knees & hips.

I haven't tested anything yet but looks pretty convincing to the uninitiated.

If you search for kneesovertoesguy in either Youtube or Instagram you should be able to get a feel for it.

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