Epic V7 Buoyancy with Failed Hatch

1 year 8 months ago #33087 by SpaceSputnik
Hi All
I recently had to deal with failing bulkhead seal in my V7. Upon a closer look I noticed something that is making me a little uncomfortable.
There are two thick foam bulkheads around the hatch. As I was dealing with the seal I noticed that both have openings. Confirmed with Epic that those are vent holes and are to be kept open. As they said, the purpose of the bulkheads is to slow down water ingress but not to be completely watertight. Ok, I get it and it makes sense given the design of the hull. However I keep thinking about the worst case when hatch fails in rough water. I do have the hard hatch cover but if the rope on the soft cover fails it won't stop the boat from taking on water.
So, worst case. The boat starts flooding and the water starts traveling through the bulkheads and fills most of it. Will I end up with a completely useless submerged log? The ski has no foam stringers. The material of the hull seems to be thick and bubbly so I am guessing it may have some boyancy to it. Would that, combined with flotation of the bulkheads be enough for a semi useful craft while waterlogged? 
Anyone ever flooded their V7?

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1 year 8 months ago #33102 by paddlepop
let's bring this to the top again.  surely an Epic dealer or someone has to answer this 'problem'

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1 year 8 months ago #33104 by Fath2o
Isn't this question somewhat self explanatory? I don't suppose surfskis with fabric covered storage compartments were ever intended to get submerged in the surf or rough water. Correct me if I'm wrong, they are touring kayaks for protected waters. If you have this problem or are concerned about the potential problem it's probably time for a new boat. Do yourself a favor and consider a composite water tight hull. A 50 lb plastic boat quickly becomes an unmanageable 200 lb+ boat when full of water.

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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #33105 by SpaceSputnik
V7 is most certainly intended for rough water. What you call a fabric cover is a tightly fitted neoprene cover with a hard plastic shell on top of it. It can most certainly take waves breaking on it or being submerged. The hatch failure is a very hypothetical situation.
I did get in touch with Epic (not a dealer but the company itself). According to them complete waterlogging V7 is not an easy thing to achieve. The water will not travel easily through small openings in the bulkheads due to air that is present in otherwise sealed areas. According to them filling this hull with water takes a dedicated effort and is time consuming. With hatch cover off and the storage being completely filled the ski can still be paddled.
Completely waterlogged (however way you might have achieved that) the boat would remain positively buoyant but impossible to paddle. However, again, this does not appear to be a likely event.
I am considering a composite but for performance reasons. The ultra-level layups feel brittle to me, especially compared to a tank-like V7, so I would most likely use such boat with a lot more caution.

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1 year 8 months ago #33107 by Fath2o
I stand corrected. It's just that I have witnessed a surfski in the surf quickly become filled with water and sand when the hatch cover came off. You know, I was also involved in rescuing a sea kayaking couple 12 miles from shore and 2 miles downwind from there island destination in 6 foot + seas with 25 knot. winds. There kayak was full of water and they were in extreme peril. We saved them, but. lost the kayak and all their gear. The kayak was to heavy to lift and the towline soon parted.
Good luck with your bulkhead repair.

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1 year 8 months ago #33109 by SpaceSputnik

Fath2o wrote: I stand corrected. It's just that I have witnessed a surfski in the surf quickly become filled with water and sand when the hatch cover came off. You know, I was also involved in rescuing a sea kayaking couple 12 miles from shore and 2 miles downwind from there island destination in 6 foot + seas with 25 knot. winds. There kayak was full of water and they were in extreme peril. We saved them, but. lost the kayak and all their gear. The kayak was to heavy to lift and the towline soon parted.
Good luck with your bulkhead repair.


Good on you for helping. Happens too often as far as I am concerned. 12 miles into it is way way too far..
In a sea kayak, theoretically a fellow paddler can empty the flooded section, but obviously not in these conditions.

The bulkhead job is done, just waiting for adhesive to cure completely. Which is ok I suppose with snow on the ground and all :)

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9 months 1 week ago #35355 by [email protected]
I'm having the same issues with my V7. Im to scared to take it into open water for any length of time due to water coming into the supposedly water tight back hatch and then progressing into the hull. Epic have washed their hands with a too bad so sad attitude about it. 

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9 months 1 week ago #35356 by robin.mousley

I'm having the same issues with my V7. Im to scared to take it into open water for any length of time due to water coming into the supposedly water tight back hatch and then progressing into the hull. Epic have washed their hands with a too bad so sad attitude about it.

Where do you live?  

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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9 months 1 week ago #35358 by SpaceSputnik
How much water? I don't recall a lot, maybe a quarter of a glass each time I was out. Probably less. The walls of the storage compartment just had drops sitting on walls, nothing pooled.
Are you attaching the hatch cover correctly? The cover on the 2nd gen is reliable but it's really difficult to put on correctly. But it should not cause a significant water accumulation.

I know the recent (grey) V7s are now using a sea kayak style rubber cover.

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9 months 1 week ago #35359 by mamaru
Does anyone have experience with the new cover? I only saw it once, but to me it felt very, very soft and nearly came off when I pushed in the middle of the cover with my fist. My 1st gen. tissue feels much more reliable (but I must admit, I never had to test it in demanding situations)?

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9 months 1 week ago #35365 by Arcturus
I very recently rented a V7 and a V5. They had black rubber hatch covers similar to those on some sea kayaks. I, too, thought the fit was too loose, or soft. They were too easy to put on and off. The V7 seemed to have a leak somewhere; the hatch compartment would be dry upon starting, yet after two hours there was roughly a pint of water in the compartment. Whether the water entered through the hatch cover edges or from elsewhere I don’t know.

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9 months 1 week ago #35370 by SpaceSputnik
A pint in 2 hours? That's probably the same or more than a 20 year old sea kayak I used to own would take in each hatch.
Don't think water can travel easily through those bulkheads in a V7, so it must be the cover. My V7 used to take only enough to make the walls wet. Didn't even have to empty it, just wipe with a towel and leave open while in storage. Some water would come out of the front bung as well, but little and on some days it was dry. I think the bung would snort some water when I would capsize during remount drills and water was colder than air.

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9 months 1 week ago #35383 by Arcturus
It wouldn’t surprise me if the water had entered around the hatch cover if it did not have a tight seal. My own kayak has rubber hatch covers and they fit far more tightly than the one on the V7 did. Even though there were no waves, we paddled through an area where jetskiers and powerboaters were churning things up.

But the ski also had two taped-over places. Before starting out, when we pointed to one of them—which at that point was not taped and looked like a small hole—the rental rep said, “Oh, I told so-and-so to repair that!” and he rushed off to tape it. The hole he taped was in front of the footwell.

While I didn’t  measure the amount of water that got in, it was enough for my drybag to be floating.

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9 months 1 week ago #35384 by SpaceSputnik
Sounds like a hatch seal to me. Water wouldn't have traveled past the bulkhead. These bulkheads have breathing openings but they are located under the deck where steering lines are. You would have to be almost completely flooded for water to transfer to the storage compartment.

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6 months 1 day ago #35955 by Jamesjr
Mine was taking on about the same amount of water and I found it was through the cutout for the bailer. This cutout on mine looks like it was cut by a drunk person-  photos.app.goo.gl/58EiBQWGFk6s5Mur9
When I removed the bailer I noticed the side closest to the front had the plastic edge cut away so I plastic welded it and now the hatch stays dry.

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