rudder line getting stuck on yoke

4 weeks 1 day ago #37549 by mickeyA
I have a relatively new Fenn Tarpon S spec ski with typical Fenn stainless steel line connected to the rudder's "T", or yoke, steering  bar, etc. The line is loops though the "T" bar holes and has a "U" shaped protector, or sleeve, that is very typical.  My problem:  when I get in the ski in the rough surf, the rudder gets whipped about back and forth before I am able to put tension on the pedals.  There is slack in the line at the "T".  Most of the time, the loop on the "T" gets too loose and gets caught backward on the "T" or kinked up some other way.  Then steering is zero, hope you can get back in.  This can also happen if I fall off far out, allowing rudder to flutter w/ no tension on pedals.  I think if I had constant pressure on the pedals, thus no slack in the line, this probably would not happen, but that is not possible in rough water entries, or even if the ski just goes backwards upon getting in it gets caught funny on the yoke.  I did notice that the elastic behind this ski's pedals goes straight down to the back side of the fixed part of the footboard, which does not look like it keep the lines taught.  It seems as though I either need to move the elastic directly in front of the pedals, or do something w/ the connection to the "T" bar.  Any thoughts?  I am missing a great day of swells and waves...  thanks.

KR McGregor Rhythm, V12, V10Sport, Swordfish S, Fenn Tarpon S, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec. Had: Stellar SE, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon

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4 weeks 1 day ago #37550 by waterbornewarrior
MickeyA:  It sounds like a couple things going on.  First, the rudder lines shouldn't be able to work around the yoke, regardless of the tension in the cables.  It may be that the thimbles (U-shaped protectors) are too big, the cables are crimped with too much slack, or the yoke is too small.  I attached a pic of a typical Fenn setup, and it may illustrate how those thimbles shouldn't be able to wrap around the yoke.  (Rudder and cables are rotated out of their normal relationship for the photo.)  Unfortunately, whatever is going with your setup is difficult to fix.  Yoke, thimble, and cable tension changes require un-crimping and re-crimping, which is tough without special tools.  However, as you suggest, you might be able to sort it out by tensioning the cables from the pedals.  Either shortening the elastic, installing thicker elastic, or re-routing the elastic may help.   Another idea that may work is to install a "stopper" in the rudder well that keeps the yoke from over-rotating.  If you look in an Epic rudder well (and some other brands) you should see a molded-in stopper.  You could glue in a piece of material to achieve the same effect, and that may help.

Good luck!

Don
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4 weeks 1 day ago #37551 by mickeyA
thanks!  so it does appear as though  my thimbles are too big.  The irritating thing is this is directly from the Fenn factory.  I bought it new 2 yrs ago and have not touched it, other than changing the rudder to DK.  See my picture, it shows one side flipping around to the back side of the yoke, which is disaster when on water.  The cover requires a screwdriver, so if this happened way out, I would have to jump out, find a screwdriver, unscrew the cap, and pull the thimble back to correct side.  That's not happening.
I will try to side stopper as I imagine Epic has.  Could I extend the yoke by attaching a piece of plastic/wood/metal to ends of yoke to keep loop from jumping over?  Or maybe tape up the loop some to effectively make it smaller?  I realize these are not permanent fixes, but the waves are good right now...
Thanks.

KR McGregor Rhythm, V12, V10Sport, Swordfish S, Fenn Tarpon S, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec. Had: Stellar SE, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon
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4 weeks 1 day ago - 4 weeks 13 hours ago #37552 by mickeyA
i do not think my picture uploaded.  my first time to include pic here.  hopefully this comes through...

KR McGregor Rhythm, V12, V10Sport, Swordfish S, Fenn Tarpon S, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec. Had: Stellar SE, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon
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4 weeks 23 hours ago #37556 by waterbornewarrior
The picture is really small, but it appears to be a normal Fenn setup.  But your cable is clearly able to rotate around the side of the yoke.  The well has the "stopper" shape that keeps the yoke from over-rotating, so it's not that.  Your ideas of extensions on the yoke, and tape / tightening around the cable thimble, seem promising.  And as we've both mentioned, tensioning at the pedal end.

Don (DK)

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4 weeks 22 hours ago #37559 by Oskar
The new bar fixes it, you've got one of the old bars.
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4 weeks 22 hours ago - 4 weeks 21 hours ago #37560 by Ronbo
I have this issue with my XTS. It would even happen on flat water entry and is quite annoying. One of the cables has some twist in it so when it's slack, the thimble wants to spin itself over the side of the yoke. To prevent this, I used a thick rubber band around the cables just forward of the yoke. This holds the cables snug so they can't rotate to the outside and works great. The problem is that rubber bands aren't UV protected and failed over some time. I now use a zip tie to keep to hold the cables reasonably close together and prevents that wrapping.

I have that new shaped bar and still have the twisting problem on one side.

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4 weeks 6 hours ago #37568 by Ranga
This is a common problem. No the Thimbles are not too big they are standard Fenn supply.
I have tried many things to reduce this problem, all have worked but some are harder to do than others to fix the problem.
Easiest way I fixed the problem was first, grind round the edges of the T bar so there are no sharp corners. Most important is to make the cable end connection in front of the crimp stiffer and longer. Basically when I instal new cables I add a piece of 6mm plastic tube 25mm long between the crimp and the cable entry into the ski and then heat shrink it as per normal. This stiffens the cable and stops it from flipping over and jamming, simple fix but you have to redo the cables. You will inevitably have to redo cables as once it has flipped over it will snap shortly.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Atlas

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3 weeks 6 days ago #37578 by Wombat661
I don't have this problem, but from dealing with bike cables and machines with steel cables, seems like the root cause is the cable is twisted. If you take off the bar and rotate one full turn as shown, that should untwist the left cable. It will twist the right one somewhat, but at least is twisted in the less critical direction. My XT on the front is a bungee. Seems like if you twist the cable where it comes out of the footwell counter clockwise looking towards the front, that might transmit the twist all the way to the back and unwind it.
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3 weeks 5 days ago #37581 by mickeyA
Great replies!  I did rotate the bar to somewhat alleviate the twist, even flipped it again to see if it would help more.  The good side did not seem to care how many times I flipped it, it stayed straight.  This is b/c no matter how many times I twist from the back, the front rolls with it.  The front is not anchored or continuous, it is just attached to a rope.  The real problem seems to be the bad side (left on my pic) does not push back through the tube on its own.  It has to be pulled from the front (bungee or foot pressure).  I can take all pedal pressure off (no bungee) and move the rudder around back and forth (on dry land) and the good cable always go straight back into tube, while bad cable does not want to go back into tube.  Presumably b/c it is permanently kinked.  If it were just twisted, it would unwind itself up front.  I am not sure how it got kinked, but I've got to do something.  I know I can always re-cable it, but I never have fun with cutting wire and thimble, reconnecting to rope (shrink wrap needed), getting length just right, etc.  I'm just not good at and do not have the right tools.
I will first try to add a bungee system.  The bungee setup it came with from shop (only 2+yrs old) is not good, imo.  see picture for poor design, imo.  and the temporary bungee fix using the side handle.. 

KR McGregor Rhythm, V12, V10Sport, Swordfish S, Fenn Tarpon S, Fenn XT, Twogood Chalupski, Findeisen Stinger spec. Had: Stellar SE, Huki S1-X, Burton wedge2, Fenn Tarpon
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