Is feather really required

Hi all,

I am a quite dedicated sea marathon paddler. What is somewhat peculair about me is that I use a Brasca 8 wing paddle, but without feather (i.e. no angle between the blades). The reason for me to avoid this that I injured my right wrist (broke the radius) some 20 years ago, which is why I cannot sustain the constant twisting of the wrist that is required when using a paddle with feather. But once I abandoned twisting by resetting my paddle to 0 degree, I started asking myself why feather is deemed SUCH an unquestionable necessity by most paddlers. Well, as long as this was only my personal business, it was not a problem. I am aware that it helps in headwind, but that's almost all. I do not feel hampered by my way of paddling with 0 deg at all, it is, for instance, easier in sidewinds as with twisted paddel blades. But I met several paddlers who claim that the feather is somehow needed to meet our anatomy, a requirement of ergonomy - without being able to explain why and how. (One of those guys even paddles a Greenland style paddle, of course without feather, and he couldn't explain why feather was not necessary there.) So I guess this argument is rubbish. I rather observe a suspiciously lot of right-hand-tendonitis in paddlers which I believe is caused by the constant twisting.

Now I have started training people at my club, trying to make them test wing paddles and a more efficient paddling technique. The problem now is that I can only lend them my own paddles which are at 0 deg, and, moreover, that I simply do not see the point in twisting the blades. What do you think: is it irresponsible by a trainer to wean people off feathered paddels?

on dry land, set up the paddle to prepare for a left side stroke by twisting and reaching your left hand forward, keeping left hand loose around paddle. Do not let your right wrist bend at all, keep it rigid and neutral. Now move your right elbow up and down away from your body as well as move your right hand position to eye level or so, and back down.. you should see the left paddle blade rotating.

I agree with the above post by Postal256...

I have always questioned the need for 90 to 65 degree feather except when paddling into the wind, but a feather of 45 to 50 degrees actually matches the natural movement of the blades as described above.

There is no conscious twisting of my right wrist at all but with 50 degree feather everything lines up perfectly on each stroke.

As an aside, I hope that your Bracsa 8's are the Min size? Even so, pretty big for the sea, what length have you got them on?

Cheers

Andrew

I'll give your suggestions a try, thanks a lot ...

General rule of thumb: the more vertical your paddle stroke, the more feather is required.

Casual horizontal type paddling requires little, get up and go vertical racing requires a lot.

You will find that all the top paddlers have 60deg or more.

I think it says something about your own stroke that you prefer less.

Why not just flip your paddle to left hand, it does not take long to get used to, and then you become proficient at both sides and can then rest whichever hurts.

I was left with a left hand paddle to use one day and all I could do was learn, half an hour later it felt no different to a right hand paddle.

Sometimes my right shoulder plays up and flipping the paddle cures this for me.

I assume that there is a real 'stochastic' advantage for flatwater racers to use the feather. Given that it reduces resistance during a headwind more than non-feathered blades help you with a tailwind, you better get used to enough feather even when conditions do not require it from that perspective.

But watch this:



the guy twists his right hand, but not the left, as the left hand has to loosen after left exit and is thus free to choose a more natural angle for pushing. He 'exploits' his feather only one side (pulling on the left) ... and is still an elite paddler, I guess.

Have you ever tried a kayak ergometer? I doubt that you will be able to reproduce all the twisting you have to do to accomodate your feathered paddle. Show me video footage that tells otherwise. No, you will hold fast to the shaft with both hands. On the water, however, the feather (and being used to it from childhood) forces you to do the twisting, be it with the wrist or the elbow or a combination of both.

I am just afraid that people unnecessarily fool themselves into believing that the paddle is formed to some imagined ergonomic needs, while it is the paddlers who adapt to the paddle in the first place. Finding out your own angle should be given careful consideration. I am just astonished how little attention is given to that topic, be it in online discussions or in sport science.

I have tried many angles, a bit more than 60deg works best for me.
I have tried zero feather, but you still have to twist the paddle, so what is the gain?

I have not played with this for a while apart from trying out some low angles like 45 deg recently, but I am going for a paddle later today and will try a zero deg again.

My very first second hand paddle was 90 deg, and I sort of liked it, it was certainly great into the wind.
It also had a thicker shaft and for a bigger person, I thought it was great.
Why do manufacturers think that big hands and small hands want the same diameter paddle shaft?
It's the same with pushbike handlebars, I would gladly pay a fortune if somebody would make larger diameter bars.

Have you tried left hand feather? It's easier than you think.

Just a quick aside, as the paddle end in the water is pretty much stationary in a forward/backward plane, say you were paddling along at 10kmh, the top blade out of the water will be doing somewhere in the vicinity of 20kmh during the recovery.
Now take your paddle for a drive and stick it out the window at 20kmh and see how much drag the thing creates.
It is substantial.

Haha disagree on the left feather...one way ticket to lots and lots of swims for me!

Alright, so I dedicated the first 45 mins of my paddle to research.
I tried the paddle every 5 deg from zero out to 75.

On zero, it was pretty much unusable as I had to rotate it first with the left hand and then with the right.
You gotta be kidding me.

As I approached 25 deg it became usable, but awkward, as it had to rotated twice each stroke.

45 deg could be paddled with only a little rotation if I adopted a very learner like horizontal paddle style.

Moving to a better technique required at least 60 deg and in the end I settled on midway between the 60 deg mark and the 75 deg mark, as that is what is marked on the paddle.
So 67.5 or there abouts.

At that setting, the paddle only reqires one quick flip for the left blade to enter the water as the right hand blade is angled perfectly for entry without any movement at all.
Using a right control that is.

Now for the accidental experiment:

When I first started at zero and then started adding feather, I accidentally went the wrong way and made it left control.
I have never used this paddle as a left control yet and certainly have never tried to paddle my V10 with left control before, only my TK's.
No problems, I actually found the amount of feather harder to adjust to than the left or right handedness.

So what I'm suggesting, is that maybe your stroke technique is just plain crap and that your injuries may be better treated simply by learning better technique.......

P.S. I would love to see how you paddle in real life, as I simply cannot imagine how to make zero degrees work, it was for me, just plain bloody stupid

Just thought of something, are you using a wing or a blade?

Edit: Forget that, I just reread your first post.

EPIC is lukewarm on the issue:

www.epickayaks.com/extras/tips/equipment/feather-angle

But at least I will not totally spoil beginners by letting them first play with 0 deg.

This guy is trying to give a clue what the discussion is about:

www.simondawson.com/artkcr1.htm

I'm sorry for you that the 0 degree cause you so much trouble

Today I will definitely try the 45er, both sides, using a stable boat

I'll let you know about the results. But my stroke cannot be too bad. I am small (71 kg) and far beyond optimal age, have a stable boat 52 cm wide, and no flatwater racing experience (I race since 2008 only), but I can sustain 11km/h over 40 km (sweetwater). If my stroke were SUCH crap, what else is left to make me keep up with surfski paddler ten years + younger than me?

Well depends on how old you are as to the validity of the 10 years thing.
And being small, you get less wind, you have less wetted area, plus being some 19kg lighter than me, that's 19kg you don't have to accelerate as well as 19kg's of water that don't have to be displaced.

Good link for the Epic bit, I'd be interested to know what Greg Barton and Oscar actually use themselves.

That other article I had previously found myself, but none of it makes any sense to me, especially the paddle length.
I couldn't even buy a paddle that was as long as I can reach high, let alone longer.

Notice my suggestion that your technique was crap was merely that, pure speculation, hence the smiley

If I sit in my very much wider TK boats, then yes, a no feather works, but in a elite type ski, the catch is so much narrower and more vertical that it is a whole different kettle of fish.
For the record, in my TK's I use a 45 deg feather, but was happy on a 60 deg before I got a paddle that was adjustable.

And don't give up on the left handed thing, it really was a surprise to me how easy it was to pick up first time.
And after today, it seems that I haven't forgot, a bit like riding a bike.

I now have a few flat bladed paddles lying around, when beginners come out with me, I just get them to pick up a few paddles and go with whatever feels natural to them.

Other than that, I have one fixed 60 deg wing, and two, two piece fully adjustable wings to try.
They will soon tell you what they are comfortable with.

They can then go down the feather conundrum themselves from there if they continue to paddle.

I wouldn't buy a fixed paddle again, the ability to change length and feather is just so much better.