Stellar SR vs SEI vs V10sport

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7 years 11 months ago #20777 by MikeyRoo
Hi,

I currently have a Stellar S18S (first boat) which I am tiring of being left behind on the flatter days. I haven't fallen out for over a year in all sorts of conditions (Port Philip Bay and the ocean) so I think I am pretty stable on it and can always put 100% power down and beat superior paddlers / boats on rougher days. Over 10km's I can average 10.0 kph, however going downwind I often stall on the waves and get flooded (is this because of boat design or my weight)?

Being a bigger bloke 6'3 and 115kg, my hips are too wide for a Flow superstar, so I'm tossing up between the SR vs SEI vs V10sport.

I'm a conservative guy who thinks the best way to paddle is upright, (even better when I am beating the V10's & swordfishes in the bigger conditions) hence if I get the SR, the learning curve wont be too big and I'll continue to improve and wont be afraid to use it in the big days.

SEI may be too big a step initially and I feel I will be hesitant to use in bigger conditions (same as V10sport) and take 6-12 months to be faster than my current boat in all conditions. My current boat takes a while to empty after flooding so I can see a big advantage with the V10sport's bailer!

Thoughts / advice anyone? What would the speed difference's of the 3 boats be?

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7 years 11 months ago #20778 by sAsLEX
Maybe look at this thread www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1...ullet-placement.html

For a way to increase the bailing ability of the current boat to help with draining.

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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #20781 by portmanm
Mikey, I've paddled all these models - 6 ft 86kg (now). I found the SR too much volume, really like the SEI and V10S (new & old). I typically paddle a new V10 (V12 at a stretch)in all conditions. Drop back to a V10s or even the daughters V8 in huge conditions and have an absolute ball.

So, what am I saying - you need a couple of ski's - :laugh: Something to challenge, something to have fun.

Most of the reps will allow you to test ski's over multiple sessions to get an idea what suits, milk it til you find what suits.

Not sure if you'd fit into a Vajda Hawx 52, give it a try, plenty in the country at the moment. Try the Fenn Swordfish too.

As for the bucket filling and bailer, Epic and Vajda bailers I find the best. To avoid the swamping, it's a skill I'm still learning.

Goodluck.

Bio
- 90kg, 183cm, paddling 90+% in ocean conditions for 5 years. Prefer downwind.
- Epic V12 1G, V10 1G/2G, V10 Sport, V8 & V8 Pro
- Stellar SEI 1G/2G, SES 1G/2G, SEL 2G, SR 2G & S2E
- Vadja Hawx 43/46/52
- Think Evo II 2G, Ion 1G
- Fenn Elite S, Swordfish S
- Nelo 560M
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by portmanm.

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7 years 11 months ago #20785 by Kayaker Greg
Might be a bit big for a Swordfish, I'm only 5'8" and 71kg and the Swordfish does not feel like a large big volume boat to me.

The swamping will become a thing of the past as you learn when to accelerate and when to save your energy and hence increase your speed, if your going too slow downwind the waves will overtake you, your nose will lift and the wave will wash over the sides, especially for a bigger guy. Keep practicing, learn to increase your cadence and ride the waves but don't paddle anymore than you have to once on the wave, save your energy for the next acceleration.

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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #20788 by Fath2o
Mikey, Your a big guy, so IMO, you need a high volume boat, like a Zeplin or Synergy etc. The flooding is probably a combination of technique and low volume ski, also, be sure to use a proper surf rudder. A bullet will do nothing to increase drainage, it's just physics (sorry sAsalex). They only reduce the drag of the venturi. Any ski with a puny single drain (Thinks and Stellars) will drain painfully slow. Before I enlarged the drain on my EVO it took 2:45 minutes to drain a five gallon bucket of water, after modification only :45 seconds. I even modified my old V10 by adding two additional drains with bullets (three total) and works fantastic. Five gallon test and bucket drains in :42 seconds. I'm 100kg and the swordfish looks too small for me for any seriously rough conditions.
The other nice thing about a higher volume ski is you will probably not be as wet. Nice in the winter time.
I did a 15km downwind in Hawaii in a Stellar SE ( high volume ski) in 1:15 still recovering from a broken shoulder injury. The SE is fast, surfs great and real stable for me. Looks like it's built real nice too. The issues I had with it are: bucket is huge and would hold a lot of water, the drain is puny, and the catch is a bit wide. The ocean conditions were real friendly when I tried it and never took on much water, but, I think it would become a bathtub in snotty conditions or punching through the surf.
Looking at pictures of the SEI, it looks a bit small to me. Carbonology EVO II may be a good choice if you fit in it?
I think the fastest ski is the one your most comfortable in and having the most fun in and when the only thing your thinking about is where the next hole to drop into is, not your stability.
Anyway, good luck looking for and finding your next ski. I think it is half the fun!
(My experience is based on the fact I rarely race, paddle in flat water or with others. Just and old salty surfer dude).
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Fath2o.

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7 years 11 months ago #20791 by sAsLEX

Fath2o wrote: A bullet will do nothing to increase drainage, it's just physics (sorry sAsalex). They only reduce the drag of the venturi. Any ski with a puny single drain (Thinks and Stellars) will drain painfully slow. Before I enlarged the drain on my EVO it took 2:45 minutes to drain a five gallon bucket of water, after modification only :45 seconds. I even modified my old V10 by adding two additional drains with bullets (three total) and works fantastic.


Ummm yes they do.

Read the thread. In it you will note the NZ Fenn agent reduced the number of drains to a single drain with the 3D printed bullet, and that it starts sucking at 7kmhr.

They are dynamic so your bucket test is not a definitive test.

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7 years 11 months ago #20792 by Fath2o
I stand corrected. But I still say if the drain(s) to small or partially occluded by chards of composite etc. It's going to drain slowly, bullets or no bullets.

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7 years 11 months ago #20795 by Ranga
Replied by Ranga on topic Stellar SR vs SEI vs V10sport
Interesting how much longer the same bailer design takes to drain different skis!
Maybe it is just that there is TOO much water in the cockpit. If you have a Victorian bathtub as your cockpit it will undoubtedly take much longer than a properly designed cockpit with minimal space for excess water.

As for filling up with water, keep training and learn to catch waves properly and 'hey presto' no swamping. This will take time paddling in the ocean with waves. The top ski paddlers don't know about getting flooded as it never happens to them, even in low volume skis. Keep on paddling and it should get better.
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7 years 11 months ago #20833 by MikeyRoo
Portmanm - I think you may be right, so maybe either a v10sport or SEI.

Fath20 - I want either a stellar or Epic as I know the dealers and have comfort buying these brands.

Which would be a bigger volume ski?

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7 years 11 months ago #20842 by Fath2o
Haven't paddled SEI OR new V10s, my inclination would be toward the
V10s. Appears to have more volume overall and in the nose. Better drainage too.
Mikey, I think you should test drive the SE though. You might be surprised at the stability and definitely seems to be made for a big dude.
Paddled my EVO since enlarging the drain from 1.27cm dia. tube to a more oblong opening of 2.54cm dia. WOW! what a difference. No more drainage issues. The only time drainage was a real problem before would be when I got swamped while broaching in, for example, 3 meter waves at 6 second intervals, 25 plus knot winds, and moderate counter current. I would be flooded to the brim and the water just wouldn't go away. Of course, then it's real hard to get going before it happens again.
Yeah, I do have a bit of extra room in the cockpit, I'm 100 kg but only 176cm tall. Nice to have room in front of the foot pedals though for things like water bottles, flotsam, cold beers etc.
When I ride boat wakes, I will often be offered a beer. Need a place for the empties!

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7 years 11 months ago #20847 by TaffyMick

MikeyRoo wrote: Portmanm - I think you may be right, so maybe either a v10sport or SEI.

Fath20 - I want either a stellar or Epic as I know the dealers and have comfort buying these brands.

Which would be a bigger volume ski?


MikeyRoo, all I can say is Hooray! I too am the same weight as you, albeit a tad shorter. So am a big unit as Mr Portmanm can attest to ;)

Went through the same learning curve and settled on a new V10S in the performance layup in October last year. Have had a full cockpit on the rare occasion but the bailer in the new Epics make short shift and have you listening to that nice "gurgling" in less than a minute at 8kph. To say I am as happy as a pig in shite would be an understatement.

Also, took a Vajda Hawx 52 in the elite layup for a demo paddle last Friday. Impressive boat but a little bit tight for my big bones :whistle: . But not overly so that I would deem it uncomfortable, as I was still able to drive and rotate properly. Very narrow catch, stable and accelerates something fierce.

For my two bob's worth given your size and where you want to go the Epic V10S would be the boat for you.

Cheers,

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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7 years 8 months ago #21635 by TaffyMick
Thought I would "Bump" this topic.

Stellars are now coming out with two bullet drains as evidenced on my new SR (Exel layup).

Three options, both drains open and around 7kph, rapid drain. One drain open other closed off with bung, as per the earlier models can take a while to fully drain. Two bungs in...dry ride.

Being a high volume boat found the extra bullet drain a treat. Saved me having to fabricate a foam insert in front of the footplate to reduce volume.

Cheers,
TMick



Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1
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7 years 8 months ago #21636 by red_pepper
Looks like a good solution! Thanks for sharing the photos and information.
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7 years 8 months ago #21638 by Newbflat
Some testing I did while trying to modify my Stellar bailers left me with these numbers.

My Stellar s18s with a very poorly factory placed bullet and venturi takes 2:30 min to drain it's totally full bucket at 6.2mph/10kph.....

My Stellar SR takes 1:30 at the same speed with a its larger bucket totally full.

My Epic V10 second generation... 15 seconds to drain a full to the brim bucket at the same speed.

After using the Epic bailer for the better part of a year I can say that I don't understand why everyone doesn't switch to an epic/anderson type bailer. It's just so much better on just about every level it's a no brainier.

I will be modifying both my Stellar's to an anderson bailer this winter as the bailers used In combination with the huge buckets are inadequate IMHO.

Bill

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)
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7 years 8 months ago #21648 by red_pepper
I'm inclined to agree with you on that, Newbflat. My first generation SE drained fairly slowly, even with a "bullet" installed. My wife's SR and the S18S we had drained somewhat better with newer style bailers, but none of the above (or any of the other Epic, Huki, or Think skis I've owned with conventional bailers) come close to draining as quickly as the Andersen bailer on my V12. The one exception would be the bailer on my Scorpius XS outrigger - it seems to clear the footwells almost immediately.

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7 years 8 months ago #21651 by TaffyMick
Had to sell my 2nd generation V10S with the new bailer. Too many boats and have worked out after a few years of trial and error, and at great expense, that Stellars suit my style of paddling.

Concur that the bailer on the V10S was brilliant. Loved that "gurgling" sound as it drained the last bit out. Very handy in the suds offshore.

Yet to test the dual bullet bailer on my new SR in offshore (swamped!) conditions. The day will undoubtedly come and I will give feedback then.

Cheers,
Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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7 years 6 months ago #22229 by MikeyRoo
I thought i'd provide an update.

I've been paddling the Stellar SR for a few weeks now in glass and rough (port phillip bay swell and wind) conditions. It has been awesome fun! It has the dual drains so there has been no stage where i have had a flooded cockpit taking ages to drain.It catches waves significantly easier then my S18S. I have never caught waves as easy, linked runs, or overtaken as many people at training as now with the SR!
Flatwater speed is alot better also probably around 0.7 - 1.0 kph faster then the S18S.
I think Stellar have a better stability to speed ratio as a long term training partner (now in a v10sport) is ffrraaccttiioonnaallllyy quicker on flat water, however gets left behind in the lumpy stuff (and we have always been neck and neck when he had a V8).

I'm even questioning whether I should paddle a SEI. I want to have fun in a boat, not struggle to stay upright....

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7 years 6 months ago #22249 by Simon Haywood
MikeyRoo,

We could be brothers - i'm 1 inch shorter.

I've owned all three of those skis (all in kevlar) - still own two.

Stick with the SR - If you can spoil yourself down the track add the SEI for milder conditions until you get the hang of it. Do not sell the SR!

Having the stability and being able to throw down all the power when you want it is deluxe...On occassions I'll pass much faster skis - The looks you get when they realise they were passed by a big guy paddling a SR - priceless!

here's a tip play around with your rudders too.

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!
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7 years 6 months ago #22264 by TaffyMick

Simon Haywood wrote: MikeyRoo,

Having the stability and being able to throw down all the power when you want it is deluxe...On occassions I'll pass much faster skis - The looks you get when they realise they were passed by a big guy paddling a SR - priceless!


Happened to me on Saturday when I reeled in every type of paddle craft (ski, kayak and SUP) on a 2km home stretch into the teeth of major weather change/front, complete with 0.5 to 1m wind chop. The others were struggling... the SR? smashed through it at 110kg and 5'10" :woohoo: B)

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1
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7 years 6 months ago #22278 by Simon Haywood
TaffyMick,
just got to share - Just in from a downwinder (21knots) paddling a borrowed S18S (Excel) I had one of THOSE moments in a S18S! Blew the doors off!
topspeed 23.8km/hr

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!

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