Best action cameras for downwind

4 years 5 months ago - 4 years 5 months ago #24191 by Watto
Looking at picking up a decent action camera - keen to find out what works for you. GoPro Hero 4 Silver can be had in Perth for under $500 ($487 Harvey Norman and Good Guys until end of financial year), with the Garmin Virb Elite around or just under $400, my two current preferences, but open to suggestions.

Like the idea of GPS and speed incorporated in the VIRB, also no waterproof housing needed for downwinding - my primary purpose. I can see the camera being used on the motorbike (a worry if Mr Plod gets hold of it though, might just creep over the limit occasionally so speed on the camera may be an issue), as well as out on the pushie in a group ride, however main idea is to get in some downwind fun.

Some footage I've seen with the VIRB is bit misty, green brown tinge and unattractive but not sure which particular version. GoPro quality from online comparisons excellent. I guess it's more the gestalt - the sum of all the bits that I'm chasing.

Keen to hear people's experiences with the latest kit.

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4 years 5 months ago #24192 by supsherpa
I have the Virb Elite and it's been pretty so far. The data overlay is awesome although the form factor is a bit bulky for wearing. The new Virb XE is supposed to be the next step up with more of a GoPro form factor.
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4 years 5 months ago - 4 years 5 months ago #24195 by Simon Haywood
G'day Watto, From my experience I'd have to disagree - I sometimes use two video cameras whilst paddling: Garmin Virb (Elite) - only ever shot from the rear of my ski on the mast - thats the only mounting I have for it currently. And I use the GoPro-Hero 2 - sometimes - suction mount or helmet.
I have more problems with the GoPro(fogging) than I do with the Garmin. The battery length is greater with the garmin too. The clarity on some occassions seems to be the same - other times not so much...I get A LOT of unuseable footage with the GoPro.

Here are some links:
Mandurah Duel 2014 - Some of the on water footage is from my ski(Garmin Virb) the other is from Ian (pretty sure he uses a GoPro): vimeo.com/114945859

Here is a Hillary's run using the two cameras (shot on the same day):

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!
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4 years 5 months ago - 4 years 5 months ago #24196 by Punches
I'm waiting on the Garmin Virb X to be released. I had a Contour Roam which was good in as much as it didn't fog up but after 18 months it wasn't suitable for saltwater downwind conditions and eventually died. You need to bear in mind that exiting through a surf break or capsizing at 20kph in the salt is going to push an IPX7 rated device to the limit because of the water pressure involved. Based on this experience I wasn't prepared to commit to the first Garmin without a dive case. The new Virb looks like it might provide a good anti-fogging solution for cooler climates and be waterproof enough for surfski paddlers.

Currently own Fenn Elite S, Renegade Double
Previously owned Epic V8, Think Legend, Stellar SES
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4 years 5 months ago - 4 years 5 months ago #24197 by Watto
Thanks Simon, keen to catch up and pick your brains. Fantastic post too on ski camera/light mount - clever set up and elegantly crafted. You off to Mauritius with the lads?

Re your post - what you disagree with is not clear. The supersherpa post that for you the data overlay is not awesome - the form factor not bulky? Or my comments about colour? Early GoPro's according to posts here were foggy but apparently later models have improved. Your preference would be go the Garmin?

Thanks Punches, good point about the hammering ski and all aboard take in a get-off at speed, absolutely more than IPX7. Will do a chase-up on the latest Garmin.

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4 years 5 months ago #24199 by LaPerouseBay
Gopro3+ silver has been flawless for over a year, never fogged up. I use the anti fog strips. The case is bombproof.

Iv'e been using dashware to overlay my telemetry for years. It's simple to set up and use. It used to cost 50 bucks but it's free now. Gopro just bought the company, so it will probably be on a gopro version soon. Gopro has huge money, so the software designers will probably have an interesting setup for consumers. Good times for us with the action cams and software going crazy. It's been fun to watch over the years. The telemetry on video has helped my downwinding strategy a lot.


downwind dilettante
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4 years 5 months ago #24205 by robin.mousley
Wow - I'd never heard of dashware - awesome!

Next question: what is your workflow for editing your videos. I have an incredibly laborious process of:

- Watch the videos on GoPro's software, cut out likely looking segments and convert.
- Import into Final Cut Pro and start editing.

But it's such a pain to try to get the same time slice from two cameras. And my latest effort had 2 extra cameras to capture audio from the two paddlers... Nightmare for editing.

And if I were to overlay from dashware - oh my hat, more sequencing!

So I'd love it if you have some easier approach to this.

I find that it's trivial to capture video, an utter nightmare to edit it.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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4 years 5 months ago #24206 by Punches
Watto,

What I like about the latest Garmin is that it comes with an integrated dive case (50m waterproof) that has the charging/data download access point on the outside of the case so you don't have to open the case to recharge or download your video. This should mean that once you get the internal moisture content under control with anti-fog strips you won't have to manage a potential fogging issue after every download. Fingers crossed and touch wood of course.

I've not personally experienced fogging with my previous camera but it seems to be a real pain with most cameras in waterproof cases in colder climates.

Cheers, Peter

Currently own Fenn Elite S, Renegade Double
Previously owned Epic V8, Think Legend, Stellar SES
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4 years 5 months ago #24207 by robin.mousley

This should mean that once you get the internal moisture content under control with anti-fog strips you won't have to manage a potential fogging issue after every download.


Just a note on this to say that I've found the GoPro 3 to be far less prone to fogging than the GoPro 2, which was a nightmare. Having said that though, I still keep the cameras in an airtight case with a bunch of desiccant sachets... the theory being that if the moisture is sucked out of the cameras before you use them, there's no moisture to fog.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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4 years 5 months ago #24208 by Watto
What's airtight for you Rob - something like a Pelican case?



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4 years 5 months ago #24209 by robin.mousley
Hey Watto!

No, I just use an airtight kitchen container - here in SA there's a brand called Addis...

http://www.addis.co.za/products/houseware

And I got some big desiccant sachets from a friendly pharmacy. Every now and then I reinvigorate the sachets by cooking them at about 100C for a couple of hours.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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4 years 5 months ago - 4 years 5 months ago #24210 by Laz

robin.mousley wrote:


But it's such a pain to try to get the same time slice from two cameras. And my latest effort had 2 extra cameras to capture audio from the two paddlers... Nightmare for editing.

And if I were to overlay from dashware - oh my hat, more sequencing!

So I'd love it if you have some easier approach to this.

I find that it's trivial to capture video, an utter nightmare to edit it.


A whistle or another audio signal peak helps to sync the timeline multiple cams,
it is actually the only sensible solution.
You can use a flash too but it isn't so practical in a surfski.

Sorry guys my Google translator sucks every time...again & again

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4 years 5 months ago #24211 by topswimmer
have you guys considered the Ion range of camera's?
They don't have the speed overlay, but if you want a basic camera without an added casing these are pretty neat & only about £80 in the UK.
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4 years 5 months ago #24212 by Punches

topswimmer wrote: "have you guys considered the Ion range of camera's?"

I reckon you need minimum 50m waterproofing for downwind use. 10m might be ok for flat water and staying on board.

My Contour Roam was waterproof to 30m but wasn't up to this sort of stuff in the long term. Not linking the runs as well as LaPerouseBay but there were three different wave directions to deal with.


Currently own Fenn Elite S, Renegade Double
Previously owned Epic V8, Think Legend, Stellar SES

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4 years 5 months ago #24215 by LaPerouseBay

robin.mousley wrote: Wow - I'd never heard of dashware - awesome!

Next question: what is your workflow for editing your videos. /

/ So I'd love it if you have some easier approach to this.


I'll respond later (this weekend), buried with work and paddling at the moment. Good news is that my method is extremely simple. But it's only one camera.
Multiple video files is probably just a minor additional step for dashware (it's an extremely polished and powerful tool IMO).

downwind dilettante

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4 years 5 months ago #24216 by Watto
Wow brilliant video, crazy conditions, excellent runs Pete! Off-topic but how come those different swell directions? Wind chop one way swell another I understand, but the third? Were there reefs further out or backswell from something? Whatever, I learned quite a bit watching your boat control mate. Some high speed stuff there - I've been flipped out in similar conditions (presuming around 30 knots) getting my paddle caught behind me (you at 3.17) but maybe feathering wrong way not sure and getting hauled in face-plant backwards, as if someone grabbed the paddle underwater and bang out I've gone.

Couldn't resist finding where you are - Gawd bless Google - Tassie somewhere in that circle?




On topic, this footage shot with which camera?
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4 years 5 months ago #24217 by Punches
Thanks Watto, it's shot with a now dead Contour Roam. The sequence was shot in the middle of the Derwent River in Tasmania with your circled area pictured in the distance in frame.

The camera died after water ingress through stainless steel screws in the alloy shell of the camera. The screws were so corroded that I couldn't get them out even after epoxying a screwdriver to them. The designers obviously hadn't heard of galvanic corrosion.

The rest of the footage from this trip was useless owing to the camera going overboard and dragging behind the ski briefly. I use a RAM suction mount with a mast near the rudder which is generally good except in these conditions. When you're bouncing so hard your backside is lifting out of the seat the flex in the hull can pop the suction cap off. This is why Simon and Rob's DIY masts are so good. These are the sort of conditions you want your gear to record faithfully.

Conditions were in the extreme zone with water lifting off the surface - average wind speeds were above 30 kts and gusts in the mid 40's. We had two wind waves that day due to topographic effects and rotor turbulence from the hills to the west with swell coming abeam us from the south. And yes, executing a good forward stroke, or any stroke for that matter, can be tricky in these conditions with the wind playing havoc with your top hand. On the plus side you've got the hand of god pushing you in the back onto the runs. It actually got a LOT bigger than this further down the run with most of us bailing out of a few bigger waves after burying the nose of the ski up to our chest!

And for anyone that noticed, the guy in the other ski overtaking me always wears a pfd now.

Cheers,

Peter

Currently own Fenn Elite S, Renegade Double
Previously owned Epic V8, Think Legend, Stellar SES
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4 years 5 months ago #24219 by Korrigan

Watto wrote: Korrigan, a month ago on Video Thread You posted this:

"Here is my first (and last) video with a Garmin Virb Elite and my second (but hopefully many will follow) ride with a surfski in the Mediterranean Sea.."

Why "and last video with a Garmin"? I'm currently chasing an action cam and keen to hear what works for people. Cheers.


Last video with it because I used it the day before for kayak rolling and the Garmin Virb elite did not enjoy it. The day after the rolling (so quite a few immersions, but never deeper than 50cm), they was some fog behind the lense (that's why my video is a little foggy). I'm 99,9% sure the cam was well closed.

For the video quality, I would said it's slightly less good than the Gopro Hero 3+ silver.
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