V8 vs V10s vs V10 flatwater speed

7 years 7 months ago #20531 by Geargrinder
Does have anyone have any insight into the typical flatwater speed differences between the v8,10s and 10 ? I've looked at Wesley's graphs but because he's used a points system I don't find it that helpful and he hasn't got the v8 and new 10s on there. Also I think someone said epic used to have this info on their site but I can't see it there anymore.

Any anecdotes from paddlers who have paddled these skis ?

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7 years 7 months ago #20533 by AR_convert
May be hard to find someone who has this comparison given the change in these models recently.

I had the old generation sport and V10 and would be comfortable saying the speed difference I saw in going from the V10 sport to the V10 was about 0.8 km/hr.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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7 years 7 months ago #20536 by rhainan
My recent experience in comparing new generation V8 and V10S demonstrated an approximate .5 mph difference or less.

As always, your mileage (or kilometerage?) will probably vary. I'm a middle of the pack paddler and I have had stronger racers easily beat me on theoretically much slower kayaks.

It took me a year to paddle a V10S faster than a V8 on flat water. I am not a gifted athlete and I'm sure paddling every day would have lowered that learning curve but I did not have that luxury. There was no way I could have bought a V10S and raced it in the same season without being embarrassed.

I'm on a new V10L now and I am right back in the same situation. At the moment I am slower in it than the V10S. That means I'll probably race the V10S this season while I learn to handle the V10L for next year.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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7 years 7 months ago #20539 by owenw
I'm currently paddling a Stellar SR (Intermediate) and lately a Stellar SES (High Performance)both in the same (Excel) layup. Although the SES is potentially much quicker, I'm still quicker on the SR. Hopefully after several more months on the learning curve, the SR will only be for "big" days. I guess this applies to all levels of skis, irrespective of the brand.

Life truly lived is full of risk; to fence out risk is to fence out life itself

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7 years 7 months ago #20552 by rhainan
There has been so much talk about how Epic's newer generation skis are "faster" but I have to think that much of that is just due to them being inherently more stable than their predecessors. I might wager that the old designs may be theoretically faster but were being paddled by people with less than perfect skills (like me).

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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7 years 7 months ago #20564 by AR_convert

There has been so much talk about how Epic's newer generation skis are "faster"


Must have missed those posts, I have been left with the impression that the newer models are heavier and incrementally slower, so much so that the new V10 feels more akin to the old V10 sport. This is the impression I have been left with and am happy for those that have owned the both the older and newer models to correct this :whistle:

Always looking for the next boat :)

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7 years 7 months ago #20565 by Ranga
ALL the new Epics designs are faster than their predecessors on paper, being more stable does not make them slower!
The new V10 Sport however has had the biggest jump in speed. I paddle both and the V10 is faster than the Sport however if you cannot paddle the V10 or any other similar ski properly the Sport will be faster especially in challenging conditions.

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7 years 7 months ago #20573 by nell
My experience in the new and old V10 is that the newer one is faster mainly because you can pull in the scupper / venturi and gain about 0.15 mph/0.2kmh. With the scupper deployed, the speed is about the same on flatwater. Upwind/downwind, it's tough to say which, if either, is any faster. The new V10, however, is much more comfortable for a wider range of paddlers, has better stability, and is easier to remount. Erik

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #20584 by Geargrinder

My recent experience in comparing new generation V8 and V10S demonstrated an approximate .5 mph difference or less.


That doesn't sound like much. With such difference in width and length between the two I was expecting more. Does anyone else see something similar ?

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7 years 7 months ago #20585 by rhainan
You really have to take into account paddler experience. It takes some time to adjust to a narrower boat and exploit its potential. Surely an experienced racer with loads of time in elite boats can go faster than the .5mph difference I have noted.

A .5 mph difference works out to around a 3-4 minute advantage over 5 miles (at 6-7 mph speeds). In our local races, a two minute advantage or less separates the elites from the experienced/middle ground paddlers. Four minutes is an eternity.

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #20586 by rhainan
Double post

Western Pennsylvania Epic Kayak Dealer

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4 years 10 months ago - 4 years 10 months ago #27914 by Geargrinder
Anyone recently paddled the v8 pro vs the v10s ? Some of my friends are saying there is nothing in it. I'm also 94kg so wonder if I should go towards the boat with a bit of extra volume too.... My last boat was a fenn bluefin.

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4 years 10 months ago #27918 by TaffyMick
Had a bloke in a V7 actually go past me the other week on a river. Picked up my cadence (SR Excel) caught up with him and sat just off his wash. Observed his paddle technique including leg drive, he was good, very good. However, his cadence was slightly faster to maintain the speed and physically I could see he was (as we say in Australia) "putting the long ones in".

Having had several post paddle coffees with the local padding coach, he is of the opinion that boat speed is not overly due to the design or weight of the boat. It is the type of paddle and paddling technique that wins races. Took that with a dose of salt until witnessed this bloke in the V7. Very humbling experience. Coach was 100% right... as always!

Mick

Stellar SEI, Fenn Bluefin S, Sladecraft Comet Long Rec & Vajda K1

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4 years 10 months ago #27920 by feeny
Hi Gg,

I have paddled both and found very little in it. In fact, I not that much difference in stability between the two either. I'm a bit lighter at 74kg.

I can certainly turn the v8 pro faster than a v10s and well, it the v8 pro has a couple of bucket handles too.

...So I ordered a v8 pro ultra over a v10s... :D

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4 years 10 months ago #27929 by epic5253
Just saw the latest epic ski speed comparisons - might be of help www.surfskinews.com/first-blog/2017/1/30...son-with-greg-barton

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4 years 10 months ago #27930 by Hiro
"The following times are what Greg Barton, paddling the stated Epic surfski models, would expect to record in a 10K flatwater time-trial. The second set of times reflect Greg’s best estimate as to what an intermediate level paddler could expect on the same course."

Don't you think He could at least paddle those boats for real and give real speed comparisons instead of "guestimations" ?

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4 years 10 months ago #27932 by Fuyang Guy
I'd be quite sure that Greg's estimate would be based on a calculation using his average power and the drag coefficient of the various boats.
Actual paddle times would be significantly influenced by a multitude of uncontrollable variables, from the paddler having better or worse days down to current, wind, boat washes etc. etc.
So a single run in each boat would be less reliable than a calculation.

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4 years 10 months ago #27933 by Geargrinder
Funnily enough, I asked if they could do this on their facebook page a couple of days back so maybe my wish was granted !

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4 years 10 months ago #27935 by Geargrinder
The v8 pro,doesn't seem to do too badly against the v10 sport. 35 seconds over 10k is a single wave or a bad brace. These gaps do seem conservative though but then in most races the reason the gaps between a v8 and a v12 are so large is that the faster boat would likely have a better paddler on it anyway.

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4 years 10 months ago #27936 by feeny
I've also seen a few faster boats with less better paddlers too.

If those numbers are correct then, in the hands of intermediate paddlers there is maybe 70 - 90 sec difference max across the epic range - and that's over a 10km distance.

I'm only a beginner-intermediate paddler and for me it's still always confidence that makes all the difference! I look at that scale and see confidence from most to least as having the greatest impact! In my case, it's definitely not the boat!!!

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