Elite Skis from the Epic factory, Cebu

5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23519 by tomy
The new Elite Skis were introduced on Facebook on the 20.1.15.
Is anyone out there who already has one?
If Yes, could you share some info on the new Skis?
Stability, weight, workmanship, ...

Cheers

tomy

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5 years 4 months ago #23522 by Ranga
Looks very heavy with all the workers having to carry it, but then again they do seem very short so it might be very light.

That will be a V14 if not mistaken.

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5 years 4 months ago #23524 by tony h
surprising lack of info on this layup option since its release on FB?

no info on epic website - price, final weight, model availability

highlights a personal dissatisfaction with epic:
- supply deficiencies
- lack of white carbon model like fenn (black carbon model reputation questionable)
- expense discrepency in Australia ( 20% more expensive in Australia vs USA & 40% more expensive than carbon fenn in Australia)

suppose compared to other brands, epic is still better with info available online about products, but suspect if they are the premium brand price wise they can still improve?

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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5 years 4 months ago #23525 by Ranga
Have I missed something here? When was this ski (V14) released? Even with your own admission Epic is better than the rest, did they forget to launch the ski? The last ski launched if I am correct was the V7.

White carbon model? Are you kidding? The Epic Ultra`s are full carbon, Kevlar, Nomex honecomb vacuum bagged, baked in an oven, double seam taped, Nomex stringer. NO fiberglass at all, must I go on?

I suppose you have added the VAT on top of the USA price?

$4200.00 for Fenn and $4700.00 for Epic, 20%? Maybe my maths is failing me!

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23526 by tony h
thanks Walter
see oscar's FB page / clare's blog on this ski - 20 Jan 2015 release of info on this layup

aircraft industry literature shows temperature in sun of :
white aircraft up to 60 degree centigrade
black aircraft get up to 110 degree centigrade
lots of issues with black carbon skis - discomfort / delamination / scratches / leaks etc

carbon fenn: 10.5kg, A$4,200
carbon epic: 10.8kg, A$5,995
42% more expensive
I am keen on carbon as it is more rigid than kevlar which albeit strong flexes a lot
ultra epic: 12kg, A$4,700 (as you mentioned ultra layup is a composite of kevlar with some carbon)

epic v14 elite skis in Australia are about 20% more expensive versus in USA

still think epic can do better with their carbon ski offering - esp price: look forward to seeing what the pricing of the Cebo factory ski is?

as you can see from my profile, I have owned most brands & realise that they all have strengths & weaknesses............. surely open to debate despite our individual biases?

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend
The following user(s) said Thank You: AR_convert

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23527 by Laz
Spoken about workmanship,
interesting to see Epic’s new " High-Tech" factory,
Prepreg processing in a unclean working environment, sweaty and fatty hands are the first cause of possible structural failures.




Sorry guys my Google translator sucks every time...again & again
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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23528 by jbrings
Hi Laszlo.

Interesting how you are now criticizing a brand, Epic, that you were dying to sell, but not able to get.

Now that you are representing Stellar your tone has changed. All these boats, of all brands, are hand made and the processes all involve people.

I also need to add, that the photos do not represent the normal production line. I think that this was the first V14 Super Elite built.

I represent Epic in Germany, but I generally try avoid any of these commentaries simply because my comments would also be seen as biased. You, unfortunately, don't seem to have the same qualms.

Regards
Jürgen

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5 years 4 months ago #23529 by tony h
given the nature of forums, this opportunistic discourse is inevitable...........unfortunately.
i would hope genuine debate on these forums would nurture R&D in this industry.

i for one appreciate all these companies who make an effort to produce new exciting products for us to play with - it is wonderful to have such choice of craft.

also value people like Ranga who fix them for us & bring their knowledge to the forums.

the super elite ski is a very interesting experiment (7+kg), but suspect given the 'man hours' (?180hrs) it may be prohibitively expensive.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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5 years 4 months ago #23531 by Laz

jbrings wrote: Hi Laszlo.

Interesting how you are now criticizing a brand, Epic, that you were dying to sell, but not able to get.

Now that you are representing Stellar your tone has changed. All these boats, of all brands, are hand made and the processes all involve people.

I also need to add, that the photos do not represent the normal production line. I think that this was the first V14 Super Elite built.

I represent Epic in Germany, but I generally try avoid any of these commentaries simply because my comments would also be seen as biased. You, unfortunately, don't seem to have the same qualms.

Regards
Jürgen


Hi Juergen,
Your brand loyalty is very commendable, but self-serving,
I think you mix up things that have nothing to do with each other,
besides I'm not so sure that I was really dying to sell your Epics.
Certainly there is no reason to be pissed IMO.
And Yes I am glad with Stellar, it's a high quality Brand with excellent value for money.

With my professional background is the processing of prepreg as on the photos a absolutely No-Go, whether the manufacturer is, Epic, Stellar, Airbus or some other.

A good professional support during the manufacturing process with most probably
unskilled labor and adequate process control is precisely in the phase-0 series essential.
Hope my criticism helps you to makes a better and safer Epic product.

greetz
Laszlo

Sorry guys my Google translator sucks every time...again & again

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5 years 4 months ago #23532 by tony h
Laszio, IMO you can't take the 'high ground' unless you had disclosed your conflicts / biases in your earlier post, particularly as it appears to have been an opportunistic sleight of a rival brand.

my black carbon ski delamination experience was with a stellar SES (believe it could have been due to overheating in the sun which could have occurred with any brand) - the 'warranty' issue was covered very well by Stellar Australia & as such I would consider buying another one in the future.

currently I have & am very happy with my 2 epic ski's, but my favourite ski layup in the market are the white carbon fenn ski's (sadly, my butt can't handle the seat)

best carbon ski I have had was a 12.5kg Stealth (gold coast) ocean ski that appeared so strong & rigid: it is still floating around the ocean & 2nd hand ski market here about 5yrs later

so ultimate ski for me is: well built 12.5kg white carbon ski :-)
(ideal strength to weight ratio IMO)

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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5 years 4 months ago #23533 by Michael Smedley
I believe that Epic AUS is currently reviewing their pricing further. A weakening $AUS vs US$ is said to be the reason. Nothing confirmed.

I personally like the new range of Epic products, especially the new seat designs and drainage systems (although the drainage systems do crack up). However, I believe they are currently already fully priced. For Epic to review prices further indicates they are fully aware of their position in the market.

Epic shipments to AUS sell out before arrival, so you can hardly blame them from a business point of view. Big businesses has to grow right? I would do the same.

That said, from a customers point of view when you know you are already paying well more than what is fair and reasonable it does leave you with a little buyers remorse after a purchase.

On a positive note, because of the demand and short supply your Epic Ski should depreciate less.

Finally, I agree about the black skis. Well over priced and Im not sure why the black, at least for hot climates. I can only assume it is a marketing thing, the all black does stand out. An all black boat is a big statement in my opinion and you should have a pedigree to paddle one. However, if you have a pedigree you don't traditionally pay for your equipment. If you are a mid packer, you are just going to look like a twat, "all the gear, but no idea". Wobbling around on your 6k ski.

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5 years 4 months ago #23537 by tomy
Thanks for all your answers and opinions.
I myself are - as you´ve seen a new border and also pretty new in surfskiing but already an "old" paddler.
My first Ski is a used black Epic V10sport (old model) and I am happy with the quality, weight & workmanship of it. This boat was paddled alot (you see this at the worn off foot plate) but the clear carbon still looks good with some scratches but little to no delamination. With a white carbon boat I couldn´t tell you this cause mistakes are hidden by the pigments. Paddeling thru the winter here in Berlin, ice is right now more likely (and a problem) than sun.
Unfortunatly my post does come too soon cause nobody seems to have seen a cebu ski already.
> Is anyone out there who already has one?
> If Yes, could you share some info on the new Skis?
Cheers
tom

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23539 by Simon Haywood

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!

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5 years 4 months ago #23544 by tomy

Simon Haywood wrote: Here is an interesting email from the Big O on the subject. ....


Hi Simon,
sorry, I am new here and I by now don´t know how the politeness in this forum works. Omho I do not know what this has to do with the subject.

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5 years 4 months ago #23547 by tony h
Hi Simon,

Don't see any promises in that email from Big O as presented?
Sounded more like he was suggesting a choice based on his personal preference?
Suspect you should make your case more clearly before slandering him......

Interesting from your email it appears that epic are aware of the elite ski concerns?

Be aware your recent forum history displays your biases.

BTW I really liked your carbon double ski - looked beautifully built!!

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #23555 by AR_convert
Interesting that Epic choose not to build (or supply) any more black carbon Legacy K1's in the Aussie market. I know several Division 1 paddlers who wanted marathon spec (8kg) K1's but told that Epic no longer made them.

Not sure what if anything that has to do with this conversation but my first impression was perhaps an inability to quality control such a light boat and hence in the future damage the brand if the boat wasn't to meet longevity expectations.

I have to say that ALL black clear coat carbon boats I have seen in Western Australia have looked decidedly ordinary within a few years such is the ferocity of the sun in this part of the world.

Having said that last week I encouraged another paddler to buy an older (previously available) Epic Black clear Carbon K1 because I was confident that if looked after would be a quality boat to race.

I for one would be transporting and storing such a boat in a bag/cover.

EDIT: Also very happy to see Cebu getting into the industry. I visited there in my Navy days (as well as many other Phillipino ports) and love the Phillipino people

Current - Carbonology"Flash" Vajda "Infusion II K1" Previously ~Finn"Molokai Mk II"~Knysna "Vantage Pro K1' Carbonology "Vault"~Epic"V10L & Sport"~ [/b]Fenn"Mill Double" ~Spirit"PRS"~Finn"Affinity"
Always looking for the next boat :)

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