Epic rudder line replacement

2 years 1 month ago #34431 by nwsurfskier
I've got a gen 2 V10 that needs the rudder lines replaced. I didn't see anything available on the epic site. Any recommendations on what to use and where to purchase.

thanks 

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2 years 1 month ago #34432 by zachhandler

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Epic V12 g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy
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2 years 1 month ago #34433 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Epic rudder line replacement
The best line is QPowerline. Its expensive and hard to find. Need to order it online. The best part is when you buy , the roll does 6 or 7 boats, so suddenly all your mates will want to change their rudder lines. It is thinner, stronger and more slippery than other line. It is what Think use on their skis.
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2 years 1 month ago #34434 by mcbit
Replied by mcbit on topic Epic rudder line replacement
I've also used QPowerline, it's excellent stuff.
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2 years 1 month ago #34435 by Cryder
Replied by Cryder on topic Epic rudder line replacement
The Q-Powerline is my go to solution. Very little stretch, and very easy to install (the factory line is a bit of a PTA). If you live near a kiting shop, that will keep you from having to buy the spool (I bought a spool - excellent long term value and peace of mind). 

Also a worthy side note; if you car top your ski without a rudder cover, the oscillation of the rudder will eat even dyneema line over the course of a paddling season. If you leave the ski on top of the car during the day on a regular basis, UV degradation will also eat the rudder lines. So key lesson: Check those rudder ports and line on the regular, and install a rudder saver on the back on ski. 

Nicholas Cryder
FasterFarther.com
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6 months 2 days ago #38047 by MikeS
Replied by MikeS on topic Epic rudder line replacement
Epic uses 2.5 Dynema.
it's cheap, readily available worldwide and it works for many years with little problem.
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6 months 2 days ago #38048 by Wombat661
I was looking at Powerline, but decided against it. Here is my fear, and it may be just my fear. Steel lines do not trap sand. You can spray fresh water into the line exit point and flush the sand out. Powerline or Dynema may trap sand. The line then acts as a sand paper. Same reason why zip tie is know to cut metal on aircraft. Once sand particle is trapped in the plastic, it acts like a sand paper.
I may be completely wrong, but someone with experience with these lines may say otherwise.

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6 months 2 days ago #38050 by Bitemekaos
If you are in Australia most dive shops keep Q power line, they use it for the trace line on their spear guns. I have used dyneema, spectra and Q power line and find dyneema and power line the best out of the three. Power line is easier to use and 
find it simpler to feed through tubes. Epic and Stellar use dyneema so if you want to make things look original use dyneema. 

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6 months 2 days ago #38051 by Bill L
Replied by Bill L on topic Epic rudder line replacement
I think the Q-power-600 that Think uses is far superior for all the reasons stated by the other posters.  So much so that, after several years of use,  I intend to replace my Fenn stainless steel lines with it. Why? 

"Stainless" steel is somewhat of a misnomer in that even stainless steel can suffer from some corrosion, albeit much much more slowly than other metals. The twisted stainless cables can also suffer corrosion inside the twist, mostly invisible to the user.  Flushing freshwater over saltwater bathed gear, like the rudder lines, can only so so much. Unless you can physically wipe all the surface (not likely to be able to do that inside a cable) or apply some chemical de-salter, some of the salt remains. 

Your argument about the sand acting as an abrasive may have merit, but I think it would apply equally to the steel lines; and, the action of the individual steel threads rubbing each other may also degrade the line (as it may indeed also do to the synthetics).

As the others have said, the Q-power line is so much more easier to work with than using dyneema or steel cables.  Because of that (human nature being what it is), you would likely be more inclined to replace your lines after an appropriate time instead of "just going a bit longer with the old cable" (and having it break at an inopportune time).  UV degradation is a always a concern with synthetics (but not steel),  but that is why the strong core of the Q-power line is covered by
braided polyester.

I have been using the Q-power and replacing other lines with it, as they come due, for over ten years, with never any issues.  If line stretch is a concern vs steel, I haven't noticed it, or at least  not enough to care about it.

Generally, one uses steel when you need the strength, but then you must carefully evaluate for corrosion, with much of it perhaps hidden from view and affected by numerous factors.  One generally uses synthetics to save weight, bypass the whole corrosion issue, and for durability, UV degradation notwithstanding.   IMHO,  corrosion of metal  is much more complex to deal with; with synthetics and UV, if you cover the susceptible part (often with a less-UV-susceptible synthetic like polyester), you have effectively dealt with the problem.

The more I learn about it (in the context of my career or personal life) I have come to deplore corrosion, and whether due to dissimilar metals, water, and/or salt, it is insidious and always occurring.

Bill L

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6 months 1 day ago #38052 by zachhandler
Are we tying ourselves in knots about an issue that is more theoretical than actual?  I have heard cases of stainless cable failing after a while. I have never heard of an actual case of dyneema or spectra failing on a ski. Is this a real thing?

Current Skis: Kai Wa’a Vega, Nelo 550L g2, Epic V12 g2, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X

Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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6 months 1 day ago #38054 by Bill L
Replied by Bill L on topic Epic rudder line replacement

zachhandler wrote: Are we tying ourselves in knots ...?

HA HA HA (especially hard to tie myself in a knot with steel cable)

But I do think you are right - I never have.

Still, everything degrades over time.  If one had a ten year old ski that was used a lot and had the original cables?   A relatively easy thing to replace for some cheap insurance. 

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6 months 1 day ago #38058 by Ranga
Replied by Ranga on topic Epic rudder line replacement
Just a note on Dyneema V Stainless Steel, (Dyneema® fiber is 15x stronger than steel at the same weight, with a tensile strength up to 43 cN/dtex. As well as its extraordinary strength, Dyneema® excels in cut and abrasion resistance and has a high resistance to chemicals and UV.)

As a full time repairer I replace 10 fold time S/S cable than synthetic, with a caveat the nylon surrounded Dyneema is the worst of all, the nylon on the outside just wears away in no time and causes more problems than you can believe.

Be very careful replacing a ski intended or designed to use S/S with a synthetic type, if you want issues go for it. Sharp edges are the synthetics enemy, whereas S/S has no worries with them. Don't believe me go for it. 

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6 months 1 day ago #38061 by Bill L
Replied by Bill L on topic Epic rudder line replacement
Ranga, your point is well taken, as abrasion of the synthetics is certainly a consideration.

I generally use plastic bushings thru the pedal to help avoid the abrasion. Then I tie off the lines to a micro sailing cleats that are attached to the back of the pedals.   This inhibits almost all movement of the line in terms of abrading on the pedal.

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2 months 3 weeks ago #38490 by wedge
Replied by wedge on topic Epic rudder line replacement
Used this twice on my V14 and V12.
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