Re: Weedless rudders

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14 years 8 months ago #881 by envyabull
Hi Patrick,

Good to hear from you again. I did not mean to infer that your overstern rudder is expensive. It is actually a great price for the work involved with building it. Compared to a new understern rudder from Huki at $125, the overstern rudder is a more expensive option, but well worth the price if it solves weed or draft issues.

I just received the new style 9" weedless rudder from Huki. It has more rake to the leading edge, yet less area and apparently less pedal pressure while sufing. It is a very high aspect rudder (deep and narrow), so theoreticallly should generate more lift with less drag compared to a low aspect rudder of equal area. Pics can be seen at the Huki website.

It sounds like this new style 9" weedless rudder may have addressed the weed issues as well as the handling issues associated with more leading edge rake. All I need to do now is put it on the boat and give it a try. Unfortunately I will be working a boatshow for the next 5 or 6 days and may not get to try the new blade until a later time next week.

Here's hoping we get a hurricane spinning offshore sometime soon. It has been a flat summer here on the East Coast of the U.S.

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  • flick
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14 years 8 months ago #882 by flick
Replied by flick on topic Re: Weedless rudders
RE:MFB. (what materials can you use?).

I played around with other materials but your best best would be to use a hard plastic. Something like perspex or a pvc type plastic works great. Just make sure the glue you use can bond to both plastic and composite. Any epoxy glue should work just fine. I am not sure the weed guard i used on my V10 would work for eel grass or any really soft weeds but it might push the weeds far enough down the rudder to sheed it just through momentum. It was made for thicker and less flexible weeds (which was my issue) and this guard worked just fine. Even for shark nets it has worked. As long as i have enough momentum the guard just pushes the net downwards enough for the boat to pop over the top.

Hope this helps at all.

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14 years 8 months ago #883 by MFB
Replied by MFB on topic Re: Weedless rudders
Hi Tyrell,

Thanks for the info. I attempted using hard plastic and it seems alright. Triangle was just enough to cover the gap between the hull and rudder. Im just preventing debris to get stuck there. Otherwise, the rest can be removed by just back paddling.

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14 years 7 months ago #884 by envyabull
Replied by envyabull on topic Re: Weedless rudders
I've installed the new Huki 9 inch Weedless rudder on my Huki S1R. This is the most extreme looking rudder I have ever seen on any surfski or kayak. It is long, narrow and has an aggressive sweep angle. Since I have bumped both my 7 inch and 8 inch rudders on the bottom, I have felt some anxiety while honking along rocky shorelines with this deep draft fin.

I have had this new rudder out twice in the typically weedy conditions about the Connecticut/Rhode Island shoreline. This raked high aspect foil did the job of shedding all weeds that came its way including grippy patches of floating eel grass that congregates along current lines. When going through a clump of weeds I could feel the boat slow as they wrapped around the blade. But within 2 or 3 more strokes the weeds slipped off and the boat was back up to speed. During both trial paddles, the conditions were relatively flat. I had one 2 mile run in quartering 2 - 3 foot wind-against-the-current waves that allowed some 10 second rides. I also rode a few boat wakes without any difficulty. The rudder performed respectfully in all these conditions.

The tracking and steering power of this rudder falls somewhere in between Huki's 7 inch Weedless and 8 inch Weedless rudders. In surfing conditions I would honestly prefer the crisp responsiveness of the 8 as the new 9 seems to require a little more pedal and a little quicker reaction time to track true on a face. There is more pedal pressure from the 9 while surfing, but it is not overwhelming. Frankly, coming out of racing sailboats, I like some rudder feedback and this new 9 is the first surfski rudder I've tried that pushes back enough to let you feel it working.

In flat water the new 9 resisted hull yawing well while I worked my wing hard. Without some more seat time with a GPS I can not say whether the new 9 is draggier than either my 7 or 8, although I feel like its resistance may increase more rapidly with increased angle of attack. This kinda makes sense as the aggressive rake of this blade would present more of the blades side profile to the flow if it is overpedaled. Any over steering can be felt as stronger resistance through the pedal, so I hope the pedal feedback will help me learn to make smaller but quicker pedal corrections after a little more time with this rudder.

Cons: Deep Draft and narrow chord increases the chance of damage to rudder and/or boat. Like any weedless rudder, the responsiveness is not as crisp as a standard surfing rudder.

Pros: The new Huki 9" weedless does the job one expects of a rudder AND eliminates the loss of speed and frustration of catching weeds. This weedless rudder actually works, even through sticky eel grass.
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  • Alain Jaques
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14 years 7 months ago #885 by Alain Jaques
Replied by Alain Jaques on topic Re: Weedless rudders
What about rudder induced roll? With so much rudder leveraging so far away from the centre of the boat don't you get a lot of roll when you push hard rudder?

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14 years 7 months ago #886 by envyabull
Replied by envyabull on topic Re: Weedless rudders
I have not noticed significant rudder induced roll with the new Huki 9" weedless. I will try to be more sensitive to this during future outings with this rudder.

I am paddling the Huki S1R which is a more stable 19" beam surfski, so it may not be as sensitive to rudder induced roll as the narrower hulls. I am also comparing this new high aspect blade to Huki's 8" weedless which has more area and probably generates more induced roll forces, despite its shorter length. But frankly I've found the S1R to have increased stability as speed increases, which I have assumed is caused by increased flow over the rudder. If rudder roll were an issue, I would expect the boat to become less stabile at high speeds.

Isn't some rudder induced roll may be a good thing? Wouldn't some roll toward the inside of a turn help keep the paddler's center of gravity balanced over the boat's centrifigal forces while making the turn? Its similar to riding a bike isn't it? Wouldn't the best rudder/boat/paddler combination provide roll forces that compliment the turning radius to help keep the paddler's center of gravity balanced in a turn?

I've heard people say that some rudders just feel right with some boats. Maybe the good rudders balance the roll and yaw forces better than others. Anyway, it would seem that a variety of rudder choices would be an important consideration when purchasing a surfski.

Its too bad that surfski manufacturers have not developed a standard for rudder shaft and yoke connections so rudders from various manufacturers could be swapped between varying brands of sufskis.



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