Carbonology Vs think Evo Gen2

1 month 2 weeks ago#30090by mamaru

AR_convert wrote:

RichardCampbell wrote: I find the Vault a bit unstable in messed up water,Like boat wake, Or tide chop or swell coming from angles.


Interesting thing about these conditions is that the more width and flatter the hull profile of a ski the greater it will be effected.

So while a ski may be known for more stability on the flat, it will feel less stable because its hull will be reacting to all those forces.

A narrower ski with a more rounded hull will be effected less by these conditions but be tippier in its feel.

Impala predicted the same, and I have heard this before. So I asked someone with a lot of experience in many different skis particularly about the behaviour of the Nelo 550 in waves. He stated that (opposite to the expectations!) the Nelo 550 also then is much more stable than the much rounder Nelo 560, he uses the 550 now for taking fotos and making videos being outside... Could it have to do something with volume distribution, rocker or something alike?

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago#30095by Impala
" the Nelo 550 also then is much more stable than the much rounder Nelo 560, he uses the 550 now for taking fotos and making videos being outside..."

I talked to the same man recently :-)

The explanation for that is that the 560 is an elite ski with a very narrow waterline. Don't be fooled by the the 45cm overall width (which according to my measuement is rather 44cm). At a realistic draft of 10,5 cm at my weight (73 kg), the 560 has a waterline width of 35.5 cm. This is narrow and makes the boat very tippy, despite the somewhat flattened bottom of the hull. The sheerline of the 560 is high above the water, so the 45 cm overall width does not provide effective secondary stability for the intermediate paddler. The waterline of the 560 is way more narrow than the Stellar SES, and the SES is way more stable than the 560, accordingly (I owned both).

The 550 is a completely different boat. I guess its waterline is at 41 cm, which is categorical difference. I recently paddled the 550 in North Sea surf for a couple of minutes, and there, for me, it is still demanding. For someone with K1 exposure, OTOH, it is an armchair. Do not forget the much larger difference that our skills make as compared to the boats. That is what Boyan proved with his V5.

Perhaps another interesting info bit for 560 owners and fans: My 560 ML has a seat height of 4 cm.

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1 month 2 weeks ago#30097by RichardCampbell
Hi All
I paddled the Stellar SEL Gen 2 today.
Started in the creek, After setting up pedal distance etc.
Started my normal way down the creek to get the feel of the ski, Felt fast,(but my GPS has had a swim and now refuses to work)
Felt really confident in the stability of the ski, Could turn around in the seat to look at the rear of the ski, Something i could not do in the carbonology
Turned back about 1 km down the creek, And headed out into the main lake, Where the wind chop was coming from the side of the ski, I could paddle the ski without having to constantly brace or feel like i was going to roll out.
Sat out there for a while in the cross chop to see how stable it was feeling, It was really good.
Paddled around for a while longer, Just seeing if i could upset myself, Seems very stable.
I'm now going to paddle a Varda Hawx 43, To see how it will compare, Being the same supposed width.
Just wondering if AR is correct that the flatter the bottom the more the boat will be upset in the confused water??

I'm going to be brave tomorrow and paddle my brothers Elite S around the down where the carbonology was giving me the confused feeling, So i'll either stay dry or be very wet.

Thanks
Richard

P.S. Thanks Owen for the info on the ski widths.
The following user(s) said Thank You: owenfromwales

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1 month 2 weeks ago#30101by RichardCampbell
Hi All
Paddled at the local club this morning, I must say, That the elite preformed very well. I did have a swim, But that was pilot error.
The boat behaved very much like the carbonology, Maybe slightly more stable. Which was interesting.
I paddled in cross chop as well as a nice gusty SW breeze.
So i'm now even more confused about ski behaviour, In different water conditions.
I'm glad my brother isn't using his ski for a while :). It'll give me a good chance to test it and me out

Thanks
Richard
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hiro

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1 month 2 weeks ago#30115by Rod Thomas
Hi Richard
I also loved my 1st Gen Vault. It was very responsive, fun and would whiz along the side of runners. I was a bit wobbly at times but didn't mind. What did it for me was on one windy choppy day I took 10 mins to remount. This scared me. So I down-graded to a Swordfish S, which has lower sides and an easier remount. I think remounting should be the criterion for deciding on whether a boat is right for you or not. If you don't have a bombproof remount in all the conditions you go out in then choose one you can.
...but I still miss my Vault...

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1 month 2 weeks ago#30118by RichardCampbell
Hi Rob
Yes the vault has been harder to replace than im thought, Im paddling my brothers fenn elite s, and im finding it not too bad, It is feeling very much like the carbonolgy, But doesn't have the second stability of the carbonology. But in the confused waters it feels slightly better. It does have the surf rudder in it and he said with the shorter rudder it becomes a different beast. I can make up a large surf rudder at work then slowly cut it down, So the jump to the shorter hopefully won't be so bad.
Im trying to find a swordfish S to have a try on, But work keeps getting in the way
From what im reading on the net, It could be a really nice ski to try next

Richard

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1 month 6 days ago#30182by Dicko
Just my 2 cents worth. I paddled a Vault for a long time and eventually traded up to a Fenn Elite and a Elite SL. I found the Elites and the Vault very similar in feel. Both had very similar primary stability. The Vault probably had better secondary.
The biggest problem with the Elites was remounting. No matter how much I practiced I was never confident getting back in and this ultimately affected how I paddled.
Now have gen 1 SEL and it is a good all round boat. Less rocket than the Elites so harder to pick up small runners and probably a bit more twitchy in side chop.
The fact that I'm confident I can remount makes paddling it an easier proposition.
I have always found that lack of rocker is a big factor in how a boat handles side chop. Red 7 pro, Think legend, gen2 V10 all struggled in the side chop. Vault and the Elites were not too bad.

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1 month 3 days ago#30204by RichardCampbell
Hi Dicko
I have been paddling my brothers Fenn elite s, now for a couple of weeks now, and getting very comfortable in it. Im still not 100 percent on getting back in. Im about to ask on the forum the major difference between the swordfish and swordfish s, and thinking that it could be the ski to get, I really want to try the Vajda 43, just to see how itll go.

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1 week 2 days ago#30347by Marieski
Yep, I didn’t buy a vault because of the remount. Same for carbonology Atom, which was the best giggle ever but impossible to remount. Ended up with the Spark. A boat has gotta be as easy to get back in as it is to fall out of.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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